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December 5th, 2010, 08:17 PM
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#1 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Montana
Posts: 79
| Select Fire M1A Question
Does anyone know how many select-fire M1As were produced by Springfield Armory? The one I am buying is serial #028XXX. What I would like to know is if anyone has information on just how many of these were manufactured by SAI.
Not talking about conversions.
Thanks for your help.
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December 8th, 2010, 10:09 AM
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#2 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 74
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I would think that the full auto was fairly rare. Interested in seeing if anyone knows.
Good luck
Jerry
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December 9th, 2010, 12:58 AM
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#3 | | Grunt
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Titusville, FL
Posts: 87
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Billy  Does anyone know how many select-fire M1As were produced by Springfield Armory? The one I am buying is serial #028XXX. What I would like to know is if anyone has information on just how many of these were manufactured by SAI.
Not talking about conversions.
Thanks for your help. |
125 if I remember correctly,
James
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December 9th, 2010, 05:21 AM
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#4 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Posts: 7,812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Billy Does anyone know how many select-fire M1As were produced by Springfield Armory?
Not talking about conversions. | 125
Reference: Iannamico, Frank. The Last Steel Warrior U.S. M14 Rifle. Moose Lake Publishing, LLC: Henderson, NV, 2005.
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April 16th, 2011, 08:50 AM
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#5 | | Grunt
Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: washington st.
Posts: 107
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I would just try and call them. If they built it they could probable give information on how many they built.
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June 10th, 2011, 11:55 PM
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#6 | | Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: GA
Posts: 4
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I have a pending transfer for a Factory Select Fire M1A, serial #038XXX
The guy I am buying it from got it from one of the Reese brothers directly, was a friend or something.
If there were only 125 produced, I would assume that they would be worth a bit more than the conversions/rewelds.
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June 11th, 2011, 06:01 AM
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#7 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Posts: 7,812
| Quote:
Originally Posted by aziator If there were only 125 produced, I would assume that they would be worth a bit more than the conversions/rewelds. | Smith Enterprise, Inc. built a "few more than 176" NFA transferrable select fire M-14 rifles before May 1986. These were billet machined receivers. Springfield Armory, Inc. made 125 NFA transferrable select fire M1A rifles before May 1986 wth investment cast receivers. These ~ 301 rifles are the only factory built commercial manufacture select fire M14 type rifles ever made. The select fire Chinese M14 rifles were made by a government owned facility, State Arsenal 356, Kunming, Yunnan, People's Republic of China. The same goes for the T57 rifle, those were produced at the 60th Arsenal, Kaoshiung, Taiwan.
For clarity, there's a difference between a select fire conversion and a reweld. In a select fire conversion, an intact semi-automatic receiver is altered after it has left the factory. Rock Island Armory, no longer in business but also owned by the Reese family, made thirty-five select fire M1A conversions before May 1986. There have been other BATF approved commercial M14 conversions performed by Hard Times Armory, R.P.B. Industries, Earl Banta, Charles Erb, Pearl Manufacutring, and Neal Smith. In the case of the M14, the operating rod rail is modified and a selector lug is added to the receiver. The select fire parts (selector shaft, switch, spring, pin and connector assembly) are then installed. As a bit of trivia, a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A connector assembly is different than a USGI M14 connector assembly. That is because the forward underside groove on the operating rod rail of the select fire M1A is 0.030 " narrower than the USGI drawing 7790189 dimension.
A reweld refers to welding two receiver halves back together to form a firearm. For the M14, rewelds were usually done on cut USGI M14 receiver halves. Both semi-automatic (Hahn Machine and Co. and Pearl Manufacturing) and select fire (Bill Fleming, H&R Gun Co., John Norrell Arms, Inc., Neal Smith, Specialty Arms Co., and Metro Tech, Ltd.) firearms were created legally by rewelding receivers in the past. Do not do this now, it's illegal.
Based on what I've seen in the Class 3 ads over the years, a commercial manufacture select fire M14/M1A brings about the same amount as a rewelded select fire USGI M14. The ball park range over the last three or four years is $10,000 to $15,000. $12,000 seems to be a typical selling price. I haven't seen much of a price difference between a factory built select fire M14/M1A (Smith Enterprise or Springfield Armory, Inc.) or a select fire conversion of a commercial M14/M1A. FWIW and YMMV
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June 20th, 2011, 04:45 PM
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#8 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,372
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Jeepers... how much research went into those 4 paragraphs Different just posted?
TFL sure is lucky to have someone like Different around...
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June 28th, 2011, 03:55 PM
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#9 |
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: FREE America, Spanish Springs, Nevada
Posts: 241
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Were Rock Island Armory conversions all on SAI manufactured receivers?
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July 20th, 2011, 03:04 PM
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#10 | | Platoon Sergeant
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of rt84 in Ct.
Posts: 304
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Can an M14 be converted to select fire legally by doing the batf paperwork and paying the tax?
I had a co-worker who had his ffl's and he was into fully automatic machine guns at the time he was into taking dewats and making them into fully operating machine guns again by doing the paper work with the batf at the time i never really paid any attention to him. Of course he passed on too. He knew the way around the laws to get anything done legally. Bill
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July 20th, 2011, 03:06 PM
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#11 | | Lifer
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Posts: 7,812
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Certain FFL/SOT licensees can manufacture post-'86 dealer sample machine guns.
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July 21st, 2011, 09:52 AM
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#12 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,461
| Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill Can an M14 be converted to select fire legally by doing the batf paperwork and paying the tax?
I had a co-worker who had his ffl's and he was into fully automatic machine guns at the time he was into taking dewats and making them into fully operating machine guns again by doing the paper work with the batf at the time i never really paid any attention to him. Of course he passed on too. He knew the way around the laws to get anything done legally. Bill | You would have to have an FFL07/SOT2 and I think have a demo request letter from military, police, other government agency. I have also heard that the ATF has gotten really strict (quite a surprise given the gang in charge there now) and will deny a demo request if they don't think the weapon requested if a relevant weapon for LEO or military.
Might also have to be registered with the state dept also due to UN regulations. Which I have heard is another $2000-3000 per year in addition to the FFL/SOT.
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July 21st, 2011, 07:59 PM
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#13 | | Platoon Sergeant
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of rt84 in Ct.
Posts: 304
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I had a change to buy a full auto m14 for 10k legally and i turned it down. Bill
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September 14th, 2011, 09:57 AM
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#14 | | Fire Team Leader
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arkansas
Posts: 208
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I once shot a Norinco? well it was Chinese select fire M14 belonging to a class III dealer.
Good vibrations!!! 
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September 14th, 2011, 04:50 PM
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#15 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Missouri
Posts: 403
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Different Smith Enterprise, Inc. built a "few more than 176" NFA transferrable select fire M-14 rifles before May 1986. These were billet machined receivers. Springfield Armory, Inc. made 125 NFA transferrable select fire M1A rifles before May 1986 wth investment cast receivers. These ~ 301 rifles are the only factory built commercial manufacture select fire M14 type rifles ever made. The select fire Chinese M14 rifles were made by a government owned facility, State Arsenal 356, Kunming, Yunnan, People's Republic of China. The same goes for the T57 rifle, those were produced at the 60th Arsenal, Kaoshiung, Taiwan.
For clarity, there's a difference between a select fire conversion and a reweld. In a select fire conversion, an intact semi-automatic receiver is altered after it has left the factory. Rock Island Armory, no longer in business but also owned by the Reese family, made thirty-five select fire M1A conversions before May 1986. There have been other BATF approved commercial M14 conversions performed by Hard Times Armory, R.P.B. Industries, Earl Banta, Charles Erb, Pearl Manufacutring, and Neal Smith. In the case of the M14, the operating rod rail is modified and a selector lug is added to the receiver. The select fire parts (selector shaft, switch, spring, pin and connector assembly) are then installed. As a bit of trivia, a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A connector assembly is different than a USGI M14 connector assembly. That is because the forward underside groove on the operating rod rail of the select fire M1A is 0.030 " narrower than the USGI drawing 7790189 dimension.
A reweld refers to welding two receiver halves back together to form a firearm. For the M14, rewelds were usually done on cut USGI M14 receiver halves. Both semi-automatic (Hahn Machine and Co. and Pearl Manufacturing) and select fire (Bill Fleming, H&R Gun Co., John Norrell Arms, Inc., Neal Smith, Specialty Arms Co., and Metro Tech, Ltd.) firearms were created legally by rewelding receivers in the past. Do not do this now, it's illegal.
Based on what I've seen in the Class 3 ads over the years, a commercial manufacture select fire M14/M1A brings about the same amount as a rewelded select fire USGI M14. The ball park range over the last three or four years is $10,000 to $15,000. $12,000 seems to be a typical selling price. I haven't seen much of a price difference between a factory built select fire M14/M1A (Smith Enterprise or Springfield Armory, Inc.) or a select fire conversion of a commercial M14/M1A. FWIW and YMMV | Your knowledge is scary sometimes. I am truly impressed.
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