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Phrobus M11 Conversion

This is a discussion on Phrobus M11 Conversion within the Edged Weapons forums, part of the Gun Forum category; After several month of trying I was able to buy off eBay a M11 knife conversion kit from numberonegi (Howard), the kit includes a crossguard ...


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Old March 9th, 2015, 08:23 PM   #1
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Phrobus M11 Conversion

After several month of trying I was able to buy off eBay a M11 knife conversion kit from numberonegi (Howard), the kit includes a crossguard and pommel that replaces the bayonet hardware on the M9 knife. The unissued Phrobus blade and stainless tang were acquired off eBay and the black handle (some fitting required...) was acquired on Gunbroker.

Fitting was a little involved as the handle's clip-end tabs had to be sanded flat and the interior hollow for the large end of the tang had to be deepened to fit the tang properly, other than that, it was a snap.

Lastly, the balance is perfectly centered on the crossguard, I couldn't be happier with this conversion.






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Old March 10th, 2015, 12:37 PM   #2
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What are the blade specs?

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Old March 10th, 2015, 05:28 PM   #3
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The blade is type 425 modified stainless, it's typical Rockwell hardness is 53 HRC







.

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Old March 10th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #4
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I thought the M11 was only made by Ontario and came with the Ontario style grips made of Kraton with the palm swell...


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Old March 10th, 2015, 10:11 PM   #5
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Actually, the M11-EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) knife was first designed in cooperation with the 52D Ordnance Group (EOD) by Lan-Cay Corp. in 1996 to serve the 52D as a multi purpose knife. The full kit made/supplied by Lan-Cay came with the M9 to M11 knife conversion pieces (guard, pommel and screw), a hand-stitched Cordura pouch that strapped to a M9 sheath, crimpers, pliers and a Gerber tool. Here's a couple of pics of the original Lan-Cay M11-EOD kit, if you zoom in on the first picture you can pick up an explanation of the kit and a date,





After the Phrobis M9 contract ran out other cutlery companies secured M9 contacts including Ontario and Lan-Cay, the designated M11 knife was produced in limited quantities and issued to the troops but it is no longer made under government contract; the M11 is made today for the civilian market by Ontario.

Here's a picture of a government contract Lan-Cay EOD M11 knife and sheath from 1997,


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Last edited by MeatyMac; March 11th, 2015 at 11:12 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2015, 01:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
The blade is type 425 modified stainless, it's typical Rockwell hardness is 53 HRC







.
Hi,
53 to 57 HRC.




Edit: Removed advertizing

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Old August 2nd, 2015, 01:14 PM   #7
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Thanks for posting after all the years I carried this kit I didn't even know they made the other.


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Old August 19th, 2015, 04:11 PM   #8
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Nice kit, Old18C, thanks for posting the pic.

Gerber made a handy EOD/Mine Probe Kit that complimented the Lan-Kay M11 EOD kit, they show up on eBay every so often.


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Old August 19th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #9
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Here's an evaluation with pics of the Lan-Kay M11 EOD kit by Outdoor-Magazine http://www.oldjimbo.com/Outdoors-Mag...-EOD-Knife.pdf

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Old August 19th, 2015, 05:18 PM   #10
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I thought the gerber tool had the primer crimper at the base of the jaws?

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Old August 20th, 2015, 11:37 AM   #11
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This pic is from Gerber's Web site, I believe it's the same D.E.T. multi tool as the one above



Here's a better pic of it





This is Gerber's other EOD kit that includes their concertina wire cutters


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Old August 20th, 2015, 11:58 AM   #12
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I just found this history of the M-11 EOD Knife written by Homer Brett in his book The Military Knife and Bayonet ,

"The U.S. Military’s New Knife With the knife being one of man’s oldest tools, it’s nice to see in this high tech world we can still design and use a knife in the military as it was first intended, a tool. That is the role the newest U.S. military knife plays in the world today, a working knife. Intended to be a useful implement on the soldier’s belt, the knife brings back to the military the utility of a sharpened blade. Although not intended as a primary combat weapon, this knife will probably see more hot-spots in the world than most. Designed for the U.S. Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal Units (EOD) the M-11 EOD Knife has already been deployed to high profile, high danger areas in which the operator could be killed in the blink of an eye, but not usually by an enemy bullet.

The U.S. EOD concept had its beginning in World War Two as an evolution of the British Bomb Disposal Units. American soldiers and officers were sent to London to learn the craft from the experienced British tutors. With unexploded ordnance virtually littering the British landscape it was a "hand’s on" learning experience. As munitions grew more complex so evolved the EOD personal and the techniques they have mastered. The senior branch of EOD within the U.S. Military is the Navy. The Navy operates the EOD training school in Indian Head, Maryland and it is staffed and attended by all branches of the military. Every attendee from the Navy is required to be trained in diving, parachuting and atomic weapons disarmament and disposal. While this requirement is not issued to all branches of the military, many of the pupils are thus prior trained.

The future of EOD work is continuing to grow rapidly with many operations throughout the entire world. To name but a few within the last few years is like a "Who’s who" of recent battlefields, Kuwait, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia and most recently Kosovo. EOD is also a combat force multiplier with EOD personal trained in combat techniques as well as their specialty. This places EOD technicians at the front of a battlefield as well as in the rear areas. With the expanding roles and missions given to the U.S. military, the need for trained EOD soldiers will continue to grow.

The new M-11 EOD knife is the continuing evolution of the M9 bayonet which was first developed from the BuckMaster knife. Beginning its life in 1996 the M-11 is specifically tailored to the EOD technician and their many needs. Although the military currently has in its inventory the excellent, non magnetic, titanium, MPK knife for EOD usage, a general purpose / economical fixed blade knife is missing. You ask why not just issue the M9 bayonet? One needs to understand the way the military works first. A bayonet is issued as an ordnance item and as such is listed and controlled very tightly much as a rifle would be. A lost, broken or damaged bayonet can lead to volumes of paperwork and is just more trouble then it is worth. Many EOD men purchased their own knives, mainly USMC Fighting / Utility knives and Jet Pilot knives. While these are excellent choices they are all privately purchased. To rectify this problem a better, mission specific "knife" was needed to avoid the "bayonet" connotation and resulting control problem with an "Ordnance" issued item.

In an effort to overcome this mission need, the 52nd Ordnance Group (EOD) set their sights on the target. The Commanding Officer at the time was Colonel Joseph H. Daves and his Deputy Commander was Lt. Colonel Michael C. Dolder. These two men assisted by Captain Donald Patton set out to develop a suitable steel, fixed blade knife that exceeded mission requirements and was economical to produce and obtain. The end result was the M-11 EOD knife system. After mission requirements were put to paper Lt. Col. Dolder and Captain Patton approached the Lan-Cay Corporation.

Lan-Cay was asked to design a "knife" based on the current M9 bayonet they were suppling to the military but with the added tools required by the EOD teams. With the requirements in hand Lan-Cay set upon the project of developing a tool pack that could attach to a current M9 type scabbard. Several prototype were designed in house by Lan-Cay for testing and inspection by EOD. While testing of tool packs was evolving the knife design took place. Among many discussions with personal from Lan-Cay and EOD a final set of three potential candidates were chosen. Prototypes were made up in sets three with nine total sets produced. They are as follows: Type 1 consisted of a typical M9 bayonet blade marked "Lan-Cay" which was pulled directly from the production line. A heavy pommel cap was installed in place of the normal bayonet latch plate to justify this as a knife. The normal M9 muzzle-ring guard was installed and the handle consisted of the regular green Zytel material of the M9. The scabbard was also made of the normal green Zytel and sharpening stone with green webbing as the normal M9's are provided. Type 2 consisted of the same "Lan-Cay" marked M9 blade, green Zytel handle and scabbard with sharpening stone and green webbing. The butt cap was replaced with a lighter steel cap and the muzzle-ring was left solid in the die cutting procedure.

The outward appearance was the same but it lacked the hole to fit onto the rifle muzzle. This was called the "modified bayonet crossguard." Type 3 consisted of a completely unmarked M9 blade, the thinner, lighter steel butt cap of the Type 2 and a black Zytel handle and scabbard body. As black webbing did not exist at Lan-Cay the green webbing was included in this phase. The Type 3 possessed a new "knife style" full crossguard with a lanyard hole on each end. These nine sets of three knives were delivered to Col. Dolder and Capt. Patton in Atlanta Ga. in May of 1997. At the time of delivery the tool packs had not been completed nor had the design been finalized so the knives and scabbards only were delivered.

Along with these prototype knives a small number were constructed with clear Lucite handles and scabbards for demonstration purposes only. The Lucite is far too brittle for any actual usage. One was constructed with the typical M9 muzzle-ring guard while all the others had the "modified bayonet crossguard." All the clear scabbards had green webbing and sharpening stones installed. In late May of 1997 Lan-Cay received approval from the 52nd Group for all the prototype designs with minor adjustments. The thinner, lighter steel butt cap was chosen over the large heavy cap. The sharpening stone was eliminated and the color green was selected for the handle, scabbard and webbing. The blade, which was black oxide coated, markings were to be "EOD / M-11 / LAN-CAY" in three lines on the left ricasso. The right side was to be left blank. This first production run was divided up in a "1-1-2" ratio of guards. One muzzle-ring guard, one "modified bayonet crossguard" and two knife type guards for every four knives produced. Less than 200 of these M-11 knives were produced for the first contact making them rare from the beginning.

The tool pack selected for the first production contract had been designed jointly by the 52nd Group and Lan-Cay. A soft pouch of green webbing material was affixed to the front of the scabbard with two Velcro tabs surrounding the scabbard body to hold the pack in place. A pocket on the outside cover flap held a Gerber Multitool. On the inside of the pack a divided compartment held a pair of side cutting pliers and a demolition crimping tool. Attached to the bottom of the pack was a web strap designed to hold tape for mine marking or black electrical tape at the users preference. The top cover was held in place by a small Fastex fastener much like the larger fastener used on the scabbard body webbing.

Part of this first group of knives were delivered to the 754th Ordnance Company (EOD) based at Ft. Monmouth who was at the time in training for deployment to Bosnia. A battlefield testing of the first M-11's was shortly to occur. Feedback from the field was intended to assist in the continuing development of the M-11 system. As a result of this field testing users decided the knives and scabbards to be black in color to distinguish them from the normal M9 bayonet and make them more distinctive. The knife crossguard was standardized for all future production. Another problem persisted in that the tool pack was difficult to open and manipulate with one hand. This was a requirement from the beginning and had yet to be rectified. The solution was to eliminate the Fastex clip and replace it with the arrangement used on the M9 Beretta holster. This system is capable of a fast one handed opening. It uses a plastic D-ring attached to springs which are stretched downward to allow the D-ring to unlock. Quick and simple.

In addition to the release mechanism a molded plastic body was developed to help hold the tools better. A final addition was made to the tool pack by the installation of a simple external web loop which held a black Mini Mag Flashlight on the left side of the pack. A second, very small group of knives were deployed with all black scabbards, webbing and handles, but retaining the first generation soft took - pack. This was then followed by the current standardized tool - pack with its stiff exterior. All of these refinements were finally put together in early 1998 and continues as the standard pack issued today.

Today the M-11 EOD Knife is issued in all black but there have been selected non-Army units requesting green which the Army has not objected too. The tool pack is unofficially called the "Dolder Holder" which is a way of the Group saying "Thank You" to Col. Dolder for his efforts in getting this piece of equipment developed and issued. Additionally thanks must go to the Lan-Cay Corporation for the effort put forth in the development of this new knife for our warriors. We always hear on the local news about those high cost toilet seats and hammers but nothing is ever said about the companies who accomplish what they set out to do, quickly, efficiently and above all, below cost. Thanks LanCay!

While the M-11 is little heard of, it is silently serving our Armed Forces around the globe in hot spots that have yet to be cleaned up. It is estimated that the earth now holds over 120 million land-mines in 71 different countries, in addition to that, from 2 to 5 million more are planted each year. Mine warfare is a dirty part of war but it is here to stay. With that said, EOD personnel are sure to be in need wherever our Armed Forces go and the M-11 EOD knife will be there with them."



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Last edited by MeatyMac; August 20th, 2015 at 12:31 PM.
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