M14 Forum

Gus Fisher

Back in the 1980's, I had a somewhat nice 18th/19th Cutlass collection and Infantry sword collection. I made a repro War of 1812 cutlass from an original blade and a Model 1850 Foot Officers sword that started from the bare original blade. I've made scabbards for these swords and some other War of 1812 and earlier swords as well. I still have the family Model 1850 Foot Officer's sword that my ancestor was presented and wore, even though he was enlisted, because he blew the original owner out of a saddle.

Some day I'm going to have to re-grip the handle on a repro mid 18th century Infantry Hanger and make a scabbard out of it. Also would like a GOOD basket hilted backsword, Dirk and Sgian Dhu some day. I think I'm going to have to have the blades for the last two custom made and then I'll handle them and make scabbards.

jmoore

Just Japanese blades, but not many of those.

Unless you count Ontario Knife machetes as swords. Quite practical, those.

CharlieEcho

I have interest in the Scottish type steels but know very little about them. Therefore I have never attempted a purchase. I would like to gift my grandson one someday. The closest thing I own to a sword is a Robeson-Shuredge machete with Boyd's scabbard. Very heavy blade for a MK-2.

Gus Fisher

The most highly celebrated blades were those made by Andrea Ferrara, who was an Italian bladesmith and moved to Scotland in the late 16h century. That name, itself, became legendary as Scots were still marking their swords with that name as late as the Battle of Culloden in the mid 18th century. Currently there is some argument he may have come from Spain. Anyway,the original A.F. blades were known for being able to be bent to quite an extreme and still spring back to straight, though I don't know if anyone knows exactly what steel he used.

Besides some local manufacture, Scots also got their blades from Solingen and Spain. There are many of the 17th and early 18th century blades that were Solingen made and some even have some markings in German on them.

In the 19th century, and especially after the War of 1812, Sheffield also made Scottish blades right up to the time they closed their doors.

A popular belief is that Dirks were usually or often made from broken/cut down swords. However, study of many original dirks has shown they were purpose made as a dirk blade. So while some dirks were made from cut down swords, most were purpose made.

Damascus, pattern welded or "Wootz" steel blades were not widely known and some authorities say almost no true Scottish swords or dirks were made from that steel.

In one of the volumes of the Journal of Armsmaking Technology, there is a huge section of oriiginal German text on guns and to a lesser extent swords and bayonet making. What I found very interesting was that in the 18th century while a large firm that made bayonets or swords could have 12 - 30 men making the blades, there were usually only two or three who knew how to temper them correctly and there was often only one person who could gild them.

Gus Fisher

Scottish basket hilt sword blades were normally "broadsword" or sharpened on both the cutting edge and the back through the Battle of Culloden and with the Scots who fought here in the French and Indian War.

However, the younger generation of Scots, who fought here in the Revolutoinary War, had not been trained in the use of the sword as their fathers and grand fathers had been. This due to the Proscription Acts following the Battle of Culloden that outlawed wearing of scottish swords, dirks, tartan plaid and even Bag Pipes, which had been called in a Court rendering - an Instrument of War. In the Revolutionary War, the "standard issue" basket hilt sword was a backsword, meaning only the cutting edge was sharpened. There is an original example on display in the Yorktown Victory Center. However, since most of the Private Soldiers and younger NCO's had never been trained in the use of the sword - they were left in British supply/staging areas. After the War of 1812, both the broadsword and backsword blades were used.

Styles of Dirks changed drastically over the years. Early dirk blades were somwwhat triangular in shape to make them very effective against men with armour breastplates and back plates. They were used primarily as a stabbing weapon and you could get in under the arm or at the neck with them.. Dirk blades remained common in this style through Culloden and here in the French and Indian War period. (This is my favorite style of dirk blade.) In the Revolutionary war, the Scots were issued a flat blade dirk wih a spear point. These were carried and used by Scottish troops here as well as to a lesser extent during the War of 1812. The "bejeweled" dirks with a lot of engraving on the blades, often seen offered by traders in Scottish clothing or goods, did not come about until the Victorian era. Some were actually real weapons used by Scottish Officers and had preciious or semi precious jewels in them. Most today are paste or colored glass jewels and the blades range from poor to terrible. I really don't like the Victorian Era dirks, myself, even the ones that were made as weapons.

senecaap

Here are three sites you may like. Castle Keep makes some of the nicest swords and dirks I have ever seen, and they are functional...and costly. Armour class may be a little less decorative, but they are sturdy and made in Scotland. The Mad Piper makes some great swords, but rumor is he may be out of the business, mores the pity. Also don't forget the Cold Steel Basket Hilt and Dirk, just for play.
http://www.castlekeep.co.uk/index.asp
http://www.themadpiper.com/
http://www.armourclass.com/Data/Page...Collection.htm

I love the basket broad swords (less so the backsword) and sturdy dirks. The Black Watch and ribbon hilts from the 1700-1780 era are my favorite basket designs. They are, to me, the epitome of hard fighting arms. They are heavy bladed, simple, well balanced, the basket provides protection for the hand and , if need be, a steel fist. The dirk was the everyday weapon and tool, pretty much everyone would have carried, and it is deadly efficient. And yes, some dirks were made from broken swords, but the dirk in Scotland and its design, predate the swords that would have been cut or broken and suitable, plus there would have had to have been mountains of broken swords to explain the amount of dirks in usage.
If you can get a peak at MacLeay's "Highlanders of Scotland" watercolors. They were commissioned by Victoria for Albert and depict their Highland retainers in full regalia and show a multitude of arms, as well as differing sporrnas, hose, bonnets and Highland attire.

CharlieEcho

Thanks for the information. I know much more now than I did before, and places to start.

Gus Fisher

SenecaAP,

I have had the last two links you mentioned for a while, but I did not have the Castlekeep link. Thank you. Actually, those prices are reasonable for a good sword.

My problem is I have big hands and many of the original basket hilts are too small for me. The surprising thing is most 18th century cutlasses and infantry swords I have handled, I have not had that problem.

However, on the two dozen or so original basket hilted swords I've handled over the years, I agree I like the broadsword better WHEN people make the blades like the originals. Many of the repro's are actually too thick/heavy, as you have probably run across.

senecaap

Gus

I stumbled on them a few months ago, and all their swords are awesome, probably the best fit and finishing, surpassing even Albion. I have had my eye on one of the basket hilts and the type H Viking, just having issues with spending 2 Large and not having the object begin with an "M" designation.

For big hands, I have heard the Cold Steel model has a larger than correct basket, but, while being tough, is heavier and clunkier than the original models. I have been hoping Albion would try their hand at a basket hilt, as theirs are usually large enough to accommodate larger hands, but still keep a lively blade. We can hope, and wait.....or become swordsmiths :)

CharlieEcho

Looks like the MadPiper is not taking orders due to health reasons. I'll have to check with his mom to see which type my grandson might prefer. I'm sure there have been others, but my grandson is the only guy I know who has worn a kilt to his senior prom. Some of those blades are pricey for good reason.

Gus Fisher

The Cold Steel models do fit my hands, but the blade is heavy and clumsy. Not sure if I want to spend all the time to grind down the blade and I don't think so.

There was another blademaker in Scotland whose site recently has been changed to say that under current law, they can no longer make dirk blades even for export only. The only thing they can still make are Sgian Dhu's and maybe armpit knives, though I didn't check on the latter specifically.

Gus Fisher

Bravo for the Laddie.

In many periods of Scottish history, it was actually far more common for most every male Scot to have a dirk, rather than a sword, because swords were so expensive.

In recent years, it has once again become the custom in Scotland and other places to give a custom dirk as a wedding present with the bride's and groom's names on it and thus becomes an instant family heirloom. They use it to cut the wedding cake.

Oh, in ancient Scottish marriage tradition, a potential bride was given an armpit dagger and the potential groom walked around her, unarmed. If she found the potential groom not worthy, she had the option of using the knife. The potential groom had the option of taking it away from her or deciding she wasn't worth it. I have seen this in a couple of real weddings done in the old style. The amazing thing is that in ancient days a fair number of the ladies WANTED to see if the man would take it away and thus prove his love and ability to defend her when he was not armed.

Sweets

Being of a kilt wearing extraction, I have a nice handmade sgian dubh. For those reading this who are not in the know, these are the small dagger-bladed knives worn in the top of the kneesocks while wearing a kilt. Sgian dubhs are in a sad state of shoddy manufactor and therefore decline all over the Scottish world, which since the Clearances of course means the whole world. But mine is acceptably useful as a knife, not a plastic handled, whitemetal bladed POS.

Gus Fisher

Yes indeed, there are TONS of pure crapola Sgian Dubh's out there that are only made for foppish decoration at best.

Original Sgian Dubh's were the "Common People's Knife" that was used for eating, cleaning small game, various knife chores and finally a weapon of last resort. The originals usually had plain wood grips with no carving or stag antler grips. Then they began carving more of the handles as time went on when it became more fashionable to wear them tucked in the top of the hose for day wear. In the Victorian era, they went with some that also had a gaudy fake or semi precious jewel in them. The modern crapola ones took these last ones and made even worse hideous travesties out of them.

Since I have done reenacting of the 18th century Black Watch, I hand made and hand sewed two pair of Diced Hose. The red cloth ties do keep the Sgian Dubh's in place for all but the most severe exertions, but you CAN loose them if you are running/jumping too much even so. Modern hose flashes with stretchable ties are not very good for keeping the Sgian Dubh in place at all and it is VERY easy to lose a Sgian Dubh with them.

Sweets

I've kept mine (so far) by shoving it way down in my highland hose when moving a lot, as at Highland Games. That class of activity includes mostly elbow bending and not a lot of running and jumping however . I had a Gerber utility knife that I used before my fancy one and on that I glued the hook side of a Velcro (TM) strip to one side of the sheath, but of course with the standard Sgian Dubh sheath the knife would just slip out of the leather- and anyway mine is too fancy with embossing and rivets to wreck with glue.