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Devine ?

This is a discussion on Devine ? within the Devine M1A forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Guys I've located a Devine (serial @ 2300) which is for sale and in excellent shape. It appears to have all USGI parts (HRA op ...


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Old June 29th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #1
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Devine ?

Guys

I've located a Devine (serial @ 2300) which is for sale and in excellent shape. It appears to have all USGI parts (HRA op rod and trigger group, Winchester bolt, and chrome lined std. weight barrel.. appears to be a Winchester barrel).

Is the market on Devines higher than what other early, but non "Devine." rifles go for? What is the premium for a Devine?

Greg

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Old June 29th, 2016, 03:56 PM   #2
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This is going to get shut down for violating ROI about asking values, but to answer your questions,

1 Yes.

2 Depends on the rifle and the eye of the beholder.

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Old June 29th, 2016, 04:07 PM   #3
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If this gets shut down for asking about a % of buyers premium that is pretty sad...and speaks volumes

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Old June 29th, 2016, 04:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by LS6man View Post
If this gets shut down for asking about a % of buyers premium that is pretty sad...and speaks volumes
Well, essentially what you're asking is "how much is a 68 RS/SS Camaro worth" without pictures, gauge readings, or anything - Then saying it's sad because we won't tell you that a generic 68 Camaro is worth X amount over a generic 1990 Camaro.

Placing values on things is against this board's rules because we are not able to physically hold the item in question, and are not able to accurately judge something other than if something looks, or sounds nice.

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Old June 29th, 2016, 05:33 PM   #5
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Your paying for the "mystic" of a Devine gun. The receivers on early non Devine guns were cast from the same mold as Devine guns. Devine and early non Devine receivers were machined by Mel Smith of Valley Ordnance of Wilkes Barre Pa as were receivers up until some time in the 90 thousand range. I have a M1A in the 4 thousand serial range and it is machined the same as a Devine receiver except the heel is slightly thicker. Devine receivers have the thinnest heels. Some were in the 10 thousand range SAI started using non GI parts.

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Old June 29th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RDS View Post
Your paying for the "mystic" of a Devine gun. The receivers on early non Devine guns were cast from the same mold as Devine guns. Devine and early non Devine receivers were machined by Mel Smith of Valley Ordnance of Wilkes Barre Pa as were receivers up until some time in the 90 thousand range. I have a M1A in the 4 thousand serial range and it is machined the same as a Devine receiver except the heel is slightly thicker. Devine receivers have the thinnest heels. Some were in the 10 thousand range SAI started using non GI parts.
Thanks... This is the type of info looking for...

I'm not asking what a Devine is worth in dollars.. simply what percentage collectors feel they bring over other prebans.

It really shouldn't be secret squirrel stuff... Not sure why some act like it is.

BTW... Framed or survivor LS6 coupes with docs and drivetrain are around 130k-150k depending on colors and trans.. 4 spd red with black buckets upper range... Green auto lower range

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Old June 29th, 2016, 07:55 PM   #7
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Apples to apples, if Devine is stamped on the barrel and it's in the SN range, it could draw quite a bit more than a early Geneseo. I used to own a 4k SN range Geneseo rifle I valued at 2 to 2200 $, it was a nice one, great shape. That gives you a ballpark to play in I guess.

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Old October 28th, 2016, 07:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDS View Post
Your paying for the "mystic" of a Devine gun. The receivers on early non Devine guns were cast from the same mold as Devine guns. Devine and early non Devine receivers were machined by Mel Smith of Valley Ordnance of Wilkes Barre Pa as were receivers up until some time in the 90 thousand range. I have a M1A in the 4 thousand serial range and it is machined the same as a Devine receiver except the heel is slightly thicker. Devine receivers have the thinnest heels. Some were in the 10 thousand range SAI started using non GI parts.
Not exactly true. When L&H Gun Company (Elmer and his silent Partner) bought all the machinery from H&R and most of the parts they could find, there were quite a few original forged receiver billets in the group. Many of the early "Devine" rifles were machined from original forged billets. Later they began to have receivers done outside.

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Old October 28th, 2016, 07:33 AM   #9
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Devine is exactly +$624.31

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Old October 28th, 2016, 07:59 AM   #10
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These pop up on GB here and there for $2500+

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Old October 29th, 2016, 04:00 AM   #11
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sometimes for 800 bucks if you happen to be a lucky mofo like what happen to me :) .
right time, right gunshow, right amount of mulla in my pocket

so to answer your question they can be worth what ever you give for it and i've seen them sell for up to 3500 plus

so there you have it !!! from 8-3500
they do bring a premium from regular M1A's , IF !!!! they are not shot out or dragged to hell and back.

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Old November 14th, 2016, 05:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by flintsghost View Post
Not exactly true. When L&H Gun Company (Elmer and his silent Partner) bought all the machinery from H&R and most of the parts they could find, there were quite a few original forged receiver billets in the group. Many of the early "Devine" rifles were machined from original forged billets. Later they began to have receivers done outside.
How many is quite a few? What serial range were they used?

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Old November 15th, 2016, 06:44 PM   #13
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Not exactly true. When L&H Gun Company (Elmer and his silent Partner) bought all the machinery from H&R and most of the parts they could find, there were quite a few original forged receiver billets in the group. Many of the early "Devine" rifles were machined from original forged billets. Later they began to have receivers done outside.
R. Blake Stevens states in his book " US RIFLE M14 from John Garand to M21"
that the bulk of M14 machinery used by H&R was sold to the Nationalist Chinese government in 1968. It was shipped to the State Arsenal at Formosa Taiwan to produce the Type 57 rifle (M14) Production started in 1969.
Mel Smith did buy at auction much of the machinery and tooling Winchester used to manufacture the M14.

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Old December 28th, 2016, 03:02 PM   #14
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R. Blake Stevens states in his book " US RIFLE M14 from John Garand to M21"
that the bulk of M14 machinery used by H&R was sold to the Nationalist Chinese government in 1968. It was shipped to the State Arsenal at Formosa Taiwan to produce the Type 57 rifle (M14) Production started in 1969.
Mel Smith did buy at auction much of the machinery and tooling Winchester used to manufacture the M14.

I don't know anything about the "bulk" of the M14 machinery used by H&R. The money behind L&H Gun Company was Lonnie Lambert who used to be known as "The Old Sarge" and operated a surplus parts business in San Antonio as well as traveling around to gun shows all over the west. He was a friend of mine and stayed at my place when in Denver. My information came from him. He was Elmer's silent partner. My understanding is that the early receivers that are often mentioned as having different milling in the rear sight recess are the ones made from forged billets. On Warbird's site there is one shown with the slotted cuts in the 00027X range and I have one in the 00003X range with the same cuts. On my others of which there are 4, all with serials above 0009xx, those cuts don't appear. Lonnie passed away from Lung Cancer several years ago. Interestingly, Lonnie is also the one who helped Elmer after the Feds forced him to sell out to the Reese family over some manufacturing indiscretions.

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Old December 28th, 2016, 08:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintsghost View Post
I don't know anything about the "bulk" of the M14 machinery used by H&R. The money behind L&H Gun Company was Lonnie Lambert who used to be known as "The Old Sarge" and operated a surplus parts business in San Antonio as well as traveling around to gun shows all over the west. He was a friend of mine and stayed at my place when in Denver. My information came from him. He was Elmer's silent partner. My understanding is that the early receivers that are often mentioned as having different milling in the rear sight recess are the ones made from forged billets. On Warbird's site there is one shown with the slotted cuts in the 00027X range and I have one in the 00003X range with the same cuts. On my others of which there are 4, all with serials above 0009xx, those cuts don't appear. Lonnie passed away from Lung Cancer several years ago. Interestingly, Lonnie is also the one who helped Elmer after the Feds forced him to sell out to the Reese family over some manufacturing indiscretions.
Gentlemen such as yourself should write down as much as you can remember so that the information won't be lost by later generations! We need to do another meet up soon.

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