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Possible Devine M1A

This is a discussion on Possible Devine M1A within the Devine M1A forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Picked up serial number 001404 today. It is hand stamped under the barrel RT 1 BX 210 DEVINE TX . Its a two line address ...


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Old February 12th, 2015, 12:00 PM   #1
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Possible Devine M1A

Picked up serial number 001404 today. It is hand stamped under the barrel RT 1 BX 210 DEVINE TX . Its a two line address and theres no O in BOX. Top of barrel has a NM. All parts are military with an HR trigger group. Barrel is SA 7791362 9 63 SD 13. OP Rod 7267064 66118. Bolt is 7790186 TRW ZG. Op rod support, sleeve,hand guard and stock are all stamped 1404. The stock is cutout on the right side of the receiver with glass bedding fill all around the receiver area. It has all NM marked rear sights and a 595 peep. Is this a legitimate Devine andf is it common to be missing the O in box? I'll post pics soon.

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Old February 12th, 2015, 02:12 PM   #2
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Sounds like it is. Pics will be helpful and enjoyable.

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Old February 12th, 2015, 05:00 PM   #3
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I talked to Mr. Balance today,great guy by the way, and her confirmed that the gun was built by him. Here are a few pictures. It was far sale as an early standard M1A. I saw the glass bedded stock from a distance and then the address under the barrel and had to start asking questions. From talking to Mr. Balance the front sight is the only thing changed out.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 06:16 PM   #4
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You talked to the man then. Looks like you found a jewel. Is the barrel lettering in the white or has the barrel been reparked? it's hard to tell for sure. Is that an extension on the front of the op rod guide?

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Old February 12th, 2015, 07:38 PM   #5
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Out of the 4 devines I have on hand, one, a four digit just a bit earlier than yours, is the only one that is missing a o out of "Box". The others all have it. Interestingly, that particular rifle is a one line barrel marking not a two line like yours. Different's list does show Box in both manners with and without the o. I've examined around 30 of these rifles first hand. The only other time I saw one that had no bright metal in the bottom of the barrel stamping, it was reparked. Yours has all the correct markings inside to indicate it was built by a military armorer. They put the serial on the stock and a variety of other places just like yours. Elmer once said that he never built any NM rifles himself but rather farmed them out to military armorers at Lackland AFB and Ft Benning, often in trade deals for receivers. On occasion he did pay them to do the work.

The glass work appears to be acraglas done in a two stage process. First undyed glass is used to secure the stock liner and then dyed acraglass is used to complete the job, normally a reddish brown final color. From the pictures at hand and the description it looks legit to me although the barrel lettering does appear to be reparked based on that one picture but maybe that's just not a very good shot.

As a Postscript, I reviewed the pictures of a rifle I bought from Deacon which is en route and also of 000916 an apparent M14 on Gunbroker and both of those are one line addresses that are missing the o in "Box." It would appear that when made the o might well have been optional.


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Old February 12th, 2015, 07:56 PM   #6
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Mr. Balance said that they left the O out often. He said people understood what BX stood for and there was a need for efficiency. If it is a repack, what do you think it does to the value? I picked it up for 2k.

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Old February 12th, 2015, 09:45 PM   #7
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That's probably a bargain even with a repark. It will depend entirely on how good it shoots and whether the barrel throat is still viable. On the M14 forum there is a rule about offering valuations without hands on visual exams.

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Old February 12th, 2015, 09:48 PM   #8
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What's the deal with that sleeve the op rod is inserted into? First time I have ever seen that.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 03:06 AM   #9
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What's the deal with that sleeve the op rod is inserted into? First time I have ever seen that.
I was wondering about that too. Ever seen that flintsghost?

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Old February 13th, 2015, 04:24 AM   #10
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The sleeve is a new one on me also. That's obviously what it is, but without a full view it would be hard to figure out how that is supposed to work or why. The end has to be fitted for the gas piston to activate the rod or it would have to be totally open. Whoever did it didn't get it out of the NM pamphlets as it isn't mentioned in any I've seen. However, this rifle was apparently a South Carolina find. There are a lot of possibilities on where it was done or could have been modified in that area. Just as a guess it may be there to keep debris off the op rod. Many armorers polished the op rod where it runs through the guide. JJH did that. Over time the polish tends to get pretty scratched up from moving in the guide. It may be an attempt to keep the rod running straight and true. That's just a guess though. It would appear to be aluminum and the guide that holds it may be aluminum also as they appear to be painted not parked. It could be something that was done after the original build. That's a lot of work to go to for not much apparent benefit. If it was beneficial then we would have seen it used a lot more when these rifles were regularly seen in competition. These days the black rifles dominate service rifle compeition. This is a question for Lee Emerson or one of the smiths that worked on these at that time.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 07:03 AM   #11
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it definitely was done during the build. It has the same 1404 inscribed in it that is in the handguard,stock and op rod support.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 07:05 AM   #12
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It has the same 1404 inscribed on it that is on the stock,handguard and op rod support. It looks like it was done when the rest was done.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 07:51 AM   #13
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The numbers placed on parts are of the serial. They are done that way so that parts from a single rifle don't get mixed up with another. That is normal on NM builds and not usually found on standard rifle builds. Since that is done either with stamps in the wood or electro pencils on metal, it could be done at any time. It is possible this particular modification was done during the original build by whatever armorer that Elmer contracted this particular rifle to. However, it is equally possible that it was done later and numbered to the rifle in order to keep it together, in case the barrel was ever changed. Having owned NM rifles that were built prior to this and after this and having examined a lot of others, I personally have never seen this particular modification before these pictures. I sent Lee Emerson a note and asked him about it. Since he is the major authority on M14/M1A rifles and wrote the book on same, he may have seen this before or at least be aware of it. I'm interested in his response.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 08:38 AM   #14
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I sent Lee Emerson a note and asked him about it. Since he is the major authority on M14/M1A rifles and wrote the book on same, he may have seen this before or at least be aware of it. I'm interested in his response.
Good idea, maybe Different will chime in.

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Old February 13th, 2015, 09:12 AM   #15
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I understand about the parts numbering. What I was trying to say is that the sleeve was marked at the same time as the support and by the same person.

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