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Could 002957 be a Devine?

This is a discussion on Could 002957 be a Devine? within the Devine M1A forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Any idea what the last "Devine" rifle was? Could 002957 be one?...


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Old January 22nd, 2015, 12:14 PM   #1
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Could 002957 be a Devine?

Any idea what the last "Devine" rifle was? Could 002957 be one?


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Old January 22nd, 2015, 12:23 PM   #2
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002898 is the last one recorded here: Record of Texas M1A Rifles

Not to say that it is or not. I guess it is possible. I would PM Different w/the info. Maybe email him some pics. He would be my go to guy for info.

Guess I should have asked though, is the barrel marked? I'd say if not, it probably was sold as a stripped receiver.

We all enjoy pics, posting some may help.


Last edited by Deacon; January 22nd, 2015 at 12:43 PM.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 01:01 PM   #3
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Thanks, its not marked. It has a GI NM barrel. Thought it could possibly have been replaced... The guy that has it started with a price of $2200 and has since raised it to $3500 because he believes its a Devine...

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Originally Posted by Deacon View Post
002898 is the last one recorded here: Record of Texas M1A Rifles

Not to say that it is or not. I guess it is possible. I would PM Different w/the info. Maybe email him some pics. He would be my go to guy for info.

Guess I should have asked though, is the barrel marked? I'd say if not, it probably was sold as a stripped receiver.

We all enjoy pics, posting some may help.

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Old January 22nd, 2015, 10:44 PM   #4
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I don't know where Deacon got his info, but the highest one on Different's list on this forum which hasn't been updated since 2008 is #003358. It does have a marked barrel and it's history is known. So far it is the highest known rifle with a confirmed Devine receiver and barrel that is known unless someone else came up with another since it was found. However, it is also known that the Reese's received a lot of Devine receivers when they bought the company in December of 1974. And sometime in the early 80's, they issued a flier by mail and offered up a lot of those receivers at higher than normal prices some as high as three to five times what a standard receiver was selling for at that time, depending on the serial number. A list of numbers that hey had left was included in the flier.

Just for the record, Collector Firearms in Houston has 001029 up for sale which also doesn't have an original marked barrel. They are asking a lot for it and making inferences that it is a Devine that has been rebarreled and rebuilt as a NM. Their website info doesn't say anything about barrel markings so I emailed them. They replied that the barrel is not marked.

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Old January 23rd, 2015, 04:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintsghost View Post
I don't know where Deacon got his info, but the highest one on Different's list on this forum which hasn't been updated since 2008 is #003358.
I was just going by the highest one on the list that actually has the DEVINE address on it. Do you consider any Texas marked barrel a 'DEVINE'? Not trying to be confrontational, just wondering b/c I have a RADIUM marked rifle, but I have just considered it an early Texas M1A. Do you think it would bring the same premium as one with a DEVINE marking?

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Last edited by Deacon; January 23rd, 2015 at 04:24 AM.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 04:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrogpilot View Post
Thanks, its not marked. It has a GI NM barrel. Thought it could possibly have been replaced... The guy that has it started with a price of $2200 and has since raised it to $3500 because he believes its a Devine...
Without the barrel markings, IMHO, it does not bring the premium of a Devine. Many in that s/n range seemed to have been sold as stripped receivers. Or, it is possible the barrel could have been replaced. It may well be a excellent example of an early M1A or even an early match conditioned one as many were built by military armorers. As far as "what is it worth?", we can't answer that; it's against forum ROE b/c there's too many variables. I know I wouldn't give him his top price for it. I have one w/Devine markings I have been thinking about putting on the market and that is the price I was going to put on it. Just one man's opinion.

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Old January 23rd, 2015, 05:55 AM   #7
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Thanks for both of you! I definitely see both sides. I wasn't asking value as I know you cant judge the 69 Camaro in my garage without looking at it. The value was more of a statement than a question. Its a nice looking rifle and I was considering it on its merits BEFORE the large price increase...

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Old January 23rd, 2015, 07:09 AM   #8
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I can tell you that Camaro is worthless. I'll come & get it out of your way if you want.

Be sure to let us know if you are able to get the rifle!

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Old January 23rd, 2015, 07:24 AM   #9
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L&H Gun Company used the "Devine" address early on and when it moved it's location used the "radium" address. Nothing changed except the address. Elmer still built the standard guns and former military armorers built the NM guns. As a collector who has several of the guns, I consider them the same. I own rifles with two digit serials up to higher 4 digits. There is virtually no difference of significance. The early two digit has the machining in the rear sight recess that Warbird mentions on his website. The three digit and higher guns do not. My two digit has a early T44E4 stock and early gas system my highest 4 digit also has a T44E4 stock but doesn't have the early gas system. The earliest guns have capitalized MM on the roll stamp and later guns have the small font mm. The company that made them remained the same. In my opinion, regardless of the address on the barrel, they are "devines." I believe that Different would agree as he includes them all on the same list.

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Old February 15th, 2015, 12:28 PM   #10
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AFAIK, the highest serial number M1A rifle with a Texas address on the barrel is 003358. AFAIK, the highest serial number M1A stripped receiver shipped from Texas is 003306. The lowest serial number to leave Illinois known so far is 002709. This is why I write about the transition period from Texas to Illinois for M1A serial numbers. HTH

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Old March 12th, 2015, 11:01 PM   #11
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. Compared to many here I am just a m14 hatchling only been around them 5 years and my opinion should be viewed as such befitting one with my level of experience.

I would not consider a m1a a "Devine" unless it has the critical marked original parts.

A mod like a a barrel change would have me passing without paperwork (I have seen these rifles with paperwork signed by mr balance here on the forum).


Say I post an ad for a Wolfe built m14. But then it becomes obvious I sent it to sai for a rebarrel. I'd call that a dishonest description.

I'm not pretending to know that the op rifle in question has been modified heavily but I would pass and find at the least a barreled action that's all Devine.

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Old April 8th, 2015, 12:48 PM   #12
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Leatherneck1903,

Please reread the ROE with the Classified . No buying or selling here!

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Last edited by XXIV Corps; April 8th, 2015 at 12:54 PM. Reason: ROE with the Classified .
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Old April 12th, 2015, 03:06 PM   #13
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Ok back to the subject at hand. If the receiver in question wasn't made by Elmer Ballance in Devine, TX, then where was it made? Also, SAI has no record of this serial number.

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Old May 1st, 2015, 10:52 AM   #14
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Elmer produced receivers (in Texas) up into the 4000 range, but most over 2700 were sold to the Illinois company and ended up on rifles built there. As Different pointed out, there was overlap in both directions. It should be noted that stripped receivers in the Devine and Radium range do not have any significant premium on their value. Only completed address marked rifles sell at a premium.

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Old May 31st, 2015, 04:10 PM   #15
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From 1971 until mid-1996, M1A receivers were manufactured by Valley Ordnance Co. (Wilkes-Barre, PA) for both Texas and Illinois companies selling M1A receivers, barreled receivers and assembled rifles. Valley Ordnance went out of business in 1996 when its owner, Melvin Smith, passed away.

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