M14 Forum

Nomad · February 20th, 2012, 05:12 PM

When traveling in the back country or just in back yards there is a chance of
getting to make contact with snakes some are poisonous and can be dangerous....
Graphic pictures: http://www.sareptiles.co.za/forum/vi...hp?f=1&t=17409
Degree of Envenomation Presentation Treatment
0. None Punctures or abrasions; some pain or tenderness at the bit Local wound care
I. Mild Pain, tenderness, edema at the bite; perioral paresthesias may be present. Aggressive hydration, Benadryl, NSAIDS
II. Moderate
Pain, tenderness, erythema, edema beyond the area adjacent to the bite; often, systemic manifestations and mild coagulopathy Aggressive hydration, Benadryl, caution with NSAIDS, consider IV fluids if available, death possible but unlikely if the patient continues to be conscious and able to take po fluids
. III. Severe
Intense pain and swelling of entire extremity, often with severe systemic signs and symptoms; Coagulopathy IV fluids, Benadryl, consider Epipen use if available, avoid NSAIDS due to bleeding risk, death will be very likely
IV. Life-threatening Marked abnormal signs and symptoms; severe coagulopathy Death even with all efforts, are up to God........
What should you NOT do? Well, that is where the heated debate comes in. Using the latest medical information available, these are the things that are largely believed out there that DO NOT have any proven medical benefit:
• Incision
• Oral suction
• Suction devices
• Freezing
• Electric shocking
• Tourniquets
Get medical attention if at all possible. Know the snakes in the area you are going to be in.
Some to watch for the Western diamondback, with the Mojave close behind them are some of the most dangerous in Western states Nevada, Utah, mainly. Just keep you eyes open in the country you are traveling in for these snakes
Have eaten rattlesnake not bad, don't eat if you are in question as they may have bitten themselves....
One of the best ideas is to avoid them, have been fishing and met them on rock ledges eye level on stream banks
did relocate them ( snake heaven) .....as for myself to catch one's breath..
In many other parts of this country there are a greater danger of poisonous snakes in southern states.......

jim-analog · February 21st, 2012, 02:23 AM

Greetings,

Thanks for the post Nomad! Back in the '70s when I was trained in first aid (and pretty sure it was still the same into the '80s), it was considered common practice to slightly open the bite wound and apply oral or other suction in an attempt to remove some quantity of the venom. I see that over the years that has been changed. Really curious as to why? It seems logical to me that if you have the opportunity to minimize the envenomation soon enough that it couldn't hurt. Any ideas on that? Guess I'm do for a re-fresh course.

Regards, Jim

CharlieEcho · February 21st, 2012, 03:17 AM

A lot like some other animals if you surprise a snake, he's gonna surprise you. I've walked and worked some around snakes of many kinds, all in the US. I've always tried to see them before they see me. It's the surprise that sets them off and sets them up. The only time I've been bitten was when I tried to move a snake. The stick I had it's head held with broke. I had a glove on and the skin wasn't broken but I felt that bite the rest of the day. It was also a smaller snake.

Suction regarding a snake bite I believe might only work if the puncture were very shallow. Otherwise it's like trying to suction the medicine out of a hyperdermic needle injection.

M1A ricochet · February 21st, 2012, 03:48 AM

I have friends that live in Australia, and when they go outback for a walk, they always take their dog for this very reason.

He runs ahead of them and will let them know of any snakes.

willriskit · February 21st, 2012, 05:48 AM

When we had our ranch, the property hadn't had a house on it since 1935. When we built ours, it soon became apparent that we were living in rattler city. There were two basic species, diamondbacks and prairie rattlers (neither was good news). Diamondbacks were usually larger and generally not aggressive but prairie rattlers were another matter. They were always in a bad mood and would actually come toward us, as happened at the mailbox one day. For the first three years I averaged shooting about 25 adults a year, ranging in size from 18 to 80 inches. Although .38/40 Colt SAA's were a favorite, my truck gun was "Congoleeza," a Winchester 1300 12 Ga. She never met a rattler she couldn't handle. Anyway, all my eco-waco friends from school warned me that once the rattlers were gone, I'd be overrun with rodents. What actually happened once the rattler population diminished was that bull snakes moved in to the same niche. These weren't venomous and were much better at rodent control. I never saw another rattler during the last four years we lived there but our driveway was a little over three miles long and I was still shooting them at the far end. These were primarily transients which denned-up in the ledges of my neighbor's property.

pine snake · February 21st, 2012, 05:59 AM

most people get bitten not so much by surprise but by getting involved, trying to p!$$ off the snake or trying to kill it when walking around /away would yield better results.

don't fool around with them, their strike is faster than your reaction time.
for whatever reason, if you are going to kill it, then kill it. the longer it takes you to finish it the more likely you'll make a mistake and get bitten.

not many like them them but they have a purpose. they are one of nature's warriors, give them the respect they deserve.

willriskit · February 21st, 2012, 06:47 AM

Perception comes from location. I've had gun show experts tell me on several occasions that rattlers only strike when protecting their territory and other nonsense. Our neighbors had a 13 year-old niece who was last in line of some kids running along a path paralleling a fence line. The diamondback was in the brush between her and the fence and she took a bad hit. Deaths from rattler bites are rare, but a combination of venom and shock killed her before they could get her the forty miles to the nearest hospital. My wife saved me from a similar experience one night when I returned from a late volunteer firemens meeting. She saw the rattler on the kitchen porch and went outside to warn me when she saw the truck. By then, he was coiled between a brick pillar and a step and couldn't have missed me if I entered the kitchen by my usual route. He became a firearms statistic. Rattlers are a real threat to people, livestock and wildlife in rural Texas and New Mexico. One of our neighbors had the game wardens find a dead gray wolf on his property and he was on a fast track to the calaboose when the autopsy revealed that the thing had died from a rattler bite. The only thing definite is that we'll never run out of rattlers.

KYShooter · February 21st, 2012, 06:47 AM

Here in western KY, there are some rattlers but, mainly, copperheads and moccasins. Really helps to learn something about them and respect them. Know where they like to hide and when (example: don't go rock climbing on the first warm sunny days in the spring).

I tend to see more copperheads on rainy nights in the summer. I don't dare walk around my yard at night without a good light.

Sweets · February 21st, 2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willriskit

When we had our ranch, the property hadn't had a house on it since 1935. When we built ours, it soon became apparent that we were living in rattler city. There were two basic species, diamondbacks and prairie rattlers (neither was good news). Diamondbacks were usually larger and generally not aggressive but prairie rattlers were another matter. They were always in a bad mood and would actually come toward us, as happened at the mailbox one day. For the first three years I averaged shooting about 25 adults a year, ranging in size from 18 to 80 inches. Although .38/40 Colt SAA's were a favorite, my truck gun was "Congoleeza," a Winchester 1300 12 Ga. She never met a rattler she couldn't handle. Anyway, all my eco-waco friends from school warned me that once the rattlers were gone, I'd be overrun with rodents. What actually happened once the rattler population diminished was that bull snakes moved in to the same niche. These weren't venomous and were much better at rodent control. I never saw another rattler during the last four years we lived there but our driveway was a little over three miles long and I was still shooting them at the far end. These were primarily transients which denned-up in the ledges of my neighbor's property.

I've heard tell that releasing pigs into a rattlesnake area will eliminate the snakes. Then no doubt the pigs become a bigger problem....

willriskit · February 21st, 2012, 08:33 AM

The problem with feral hogs is they are nocturnal and they multiply like rabbits. Friends with larger places didn't even realize that they had a problem until it was out of control. Peacocks, turkeys and hogs are all good snake killers but they also wipe out the beneficial ones, the presence of which I used to encourage. In the spring, bull snakes were fond of sunning themselves on paved roads where they were frequently flattened. I used to capture them and bring them back to our place but even with thick leather gloves, I developed a respect for their bite.

hero4you69 · February 22nd, 2012, 07:05 AM

Having grown up in central Florida and spending time in the outdoors all over the south & southwest , I have seen and skinned many ! from the saw palmetto & southern pine to the hammock & swamps to the fields & hills in the east to the treeless mountians in the west the same rule will apply to snakes as to firearms treat them all as loaded and with respect ! when out in the field always carry a walking stick when not carrying a firearm . a stick can also be good for other threats like mean dogs and 2 legged varmits and spider webs.

S-R-S

cparker · February 22nd, 2012, 04:13 PM

In Texas, we see many rattlesnakes that don't rattle. It is thought that the hog population is able to kill off the snakes that rattle, so now they aren't rattling anymore. Pretty interesting if in fact it is true.

Swamp Rat · February 22nd, 2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cparker

In Texas, we see many rattlesnakes that don't rattle. It is thought that the hog population is able to kill off the snakes that rattle, so now they aren't rattling anymore. Pretty interesting if in fact it is true.

Sometimes that rattle breaks. I was once surprised by the biggest rattler I had ever seen years ago while doing security checks on a military base and jumped into a dry creek bed damn near right on top of it. First thing I noticed was a busted rattle but that tail was going crazy.

TheTurtle · February 22nd, 2012, 06:42 PM

Just keep an open eye and if you do find one, don't give it a reason to bite you and you wont get bit.

Worked at an exotic pet store for a while and I was in charge of feeding and breeding the reptiles. Heard stories of people taking rope and painting it with black and white stripes (like a California king snake) and placing them around their property to keep the rattlers away.

Seems far fetched but I guess it COULD work.

kgcoker · February 22nd, 2012, 07:07 PM

I understand that the reason the incision technique is no longer recommend is because infections in the incisions caused more problems than the snake bite. This information from a First Aid class I attended. Hopefully the instructor's "facts" were accurate.

KG