M14 Forum

hamchuck

I'm expecting that in a few years I'll be able to buy some land somewhere in Arizona. In the short term it will be a camping getaway on long weekends, but eventually it's where I'll build a home. It's not specifically for SHTF, but I want it to be able to handle that too. What I'm thinking:

Forest land near a wilderness area or national forest
2 acres minimum
water well on-site
30-45 minutes from a fair-sized town

After that, my ideas get vague. If you were on the market, what would be on your wish list?

LemmyCaution

I can tell you what was on my list when I was on the market:

>20acres.
$1000-$1500 per acre (as cheap as it gets in VT).
Town with no zoning laws.
Town with low population density.
At least 10 acres of woodland.
Access via Class 4 (town right of way, but unmaintained) road.
Power at property boundary (not that I'm using it).
A flat spot big enough to build a cabin on and clear for a garden.
Moving surface water or a reliable spring.
Neighbors that are primarily part-time residents.

jim-analog

Greetings,

My wife and I had looked for land in Montana about 15 years ago. Didn't end up buying out there (stayed in PA and bought here), but here are a few things we were taking into account. In no particular order:

Year round accessibility. Some sites at higher elevations got very snowed in and would have required a "snow cat" to get in/out. How/who maintains the road(s) to get to your lot? What will be required to build a driveway to where you will build? Length/incline/conditions =$.

Water available/water rights. I don't know all that much about the water rights laws and how they differ in each state, but it was something that came up and needs to be researched. The deeper a well is dug the more it costs. There is also no guarantee that the location you drill at will yield water at the quantity/quality needed. Surface or underground water can be contaminated or need some type of treatment to be potable.

Power lines not too far away with a possible right of way to get to your lot. It can be VERY expensive to pull in power. You may feel it's not required (and it may not be), but it's certainly a plus to have or at least to have available if you decide to pull it in later on.

Mineral rights to property. Who owns them? Many lots we saw did NOT have the rights to whatever may be found underground. Again, I'm not up on the laws at all, but could that mean that for example, and energy company that has had the rights for a hundred years can come in and start to dig?

Rights of way across the property. Goes both ways. You need to be able to have legal ingress/egress to your land; however it may be that there is a deeded right of way across your lot to another. This could affect your ability to build within that area.

Deed restrictions. Could be many different things. I've seen some very strange restrictions ranging from how small/large you could build to what you could do, etc.

Any wetlands or other "protected" areas on the property that could limit your use?

Zoning regulations. Big can of worms here! Permits can be required for just about anything or significantly limit what you can do (and how much it will cost to do it).

Soil quality. Does it perk? What will you need to do regarding waste water, septic system, etc. Do you want to grow a garden, crops, etc.? Will the soil type/quality support your plans? How difficult is it to excavate to build? Will is support the structure(s) you intend to build?

Taxes. The "raw" land will be assessed at some value and taxed based on that. When you do an improvement to it (well, power, etc.) it will likely be re-assessed at a higher value. Again, more of the same when you build a structure.

Re-sale value. This is likely something you may not particularly care about at this point, but things happen, life gets in the way of plans and you may at some point want to or have to sell. Be sure the property you buy will have a similar value to others as it does to you. Think about the adjacent properties whatever they may be and how they could affect the value of yours either good or bad. The abandoned mine next door might seem cool, but the arsenic left in the ground there may not.

Availability of skilled labor in the area. Unless you're planning on doing 100% of the project yourself, are there tradesmen in the area or will they have to travel a great distance? This can affect your overall project cost.

Distance/difficulty of travel to "civilization". How far to the hospital, the store to get supplies, etc.? Are the roads open all year long?

I'm sure there are many more things that aren't coming to mind, but this is something for you to think about. Best of luck on your search.

Regards, Jim

adrbe

Totally agree on all points.

I'm implementing my retirement plan by purchasing a large tract that I can pay off and fully develop by the time I'm 60 (in 30 years). That will give me enough time to plant trees that will be useful, and ready the land. The idea is to create a self-sustaining plot, with no mortgage. Sell my house when I retire and use the money from that to buy some equipment and for taxes/security blanket.

I'm aiming for 35 acres, with 10 acres of timber as you mentioned. Specifically Pinions, as they produce pine nuts.

10 acre orchard with Walnut, Pecan (Hickory), and Cherry trees, as well as any citrus I am able to grow. Nuts can be harvested, and when the trees die, the lumber can be sold for good money, and the hardwood also makes great firewood.

10 acre farm+pasture. Must have some grassland suitable for grazing.

Some hills, to build an earth home into, made from concrete for fire protection.

Water rights. A well at the highest practical point on the property, and gravity fed irrigation and water supply.

Southern exposure.

30-60 minutes from a hospital.

Telephone at the property line but power is nice too.

No zoning or agricultural zoning. No covenants.

The most important thing for me is fertile land.

huntinghawk

No commercial power available may not be such a bad thing. For lack of a better word, most non preppers are going to follow paved roads & power lines to places they can beg, borrow, or steal stuff. So a place set up with alternative energy such as solar system might be beneficial. Especially if you look at the cost of running commercial power from a road to where your home might be.

And commercial phone line isn't a must either. I'm 12 miles from the nearest cell tower but don't have any trouble using the amplifier. Could actually do internet with it though would probably be fairly slow. Technologies are changing so don't lock yourself into what works today as there may be better options tomorrow.

HH

huntinghawk

Research:
What is the normal sun days per year?
What is the average rain fall?
How long is the normal growing season?
What grows well in the soil & when to plant it?
What is the normal wind that windmill or wind generator might be useable?

HH

hammer 1

My wife and I put a bid in a few months ago for a property that is a dream, for us at least. 36 acres, with a pond, I think the pond covered 4 acres. There is a natural gas well on the property that you get rent and personal gas from. The house is a 3 bedroom, 2 story, a cistern in the basement, a root cellar, natural gas back up generator. Newer siding, roof is 4 years old. There are a garage attached, and a barn. Its surrounded by farms, and there is a stream on the back side of the property. Its about a half hour from present location, which is a little from urban area. We have been going back and forth with bid and counter, but , we really want the property.

hamchuck

A natural gas well?! That's very cool, good luck!

Seventh Fleet

One of the main things that you should consider is that the land and house payments as well as the property taxes are well within your means.

It would be a terrible tragedy to finally make the move to your dream homestead and then not be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor because of the sleepless nights spent worrying about how you're going to make this months payment.

I know because back when the world changed and US Steel shut down their Fairfield works in 82 I was an owner operator independent steel hauler. Many was the time after the steel mill closed that I had problems coming up with the $277.29 at the first of the month to cover my house/land payment. My mortgage was only for five years and I had the place over half paid for at that time but it was still a strain coming up with the money at times.

Nothing is static in life, so you need to cover the unforeseen things that life throws at all of us by having an emergency fund that Dave Ramsey talks about.
7th

hammer 1

Definitely, like 7th said, make sure its within your means, I hope you find what you want.

LemmyCaution

Re: What 7th said above-

We've paid for everything on our homestead with cash, as we've earned it. When we moved onto our property, we were sleeping in hammocks under a tarp. Which became interesting with the onset of the first winter.

The land was paid for in cash- essentially the entirety of our savings, which was disappearing rapidly in the investments it was in at the time.

We've made slow progress over the last few years, but have no debts, and live comfortably enough to suit us, though everyone we know thinks we're utterly nuts.

It can be done, but it's decidedly not for everybody.

phantomguy

Last year I retired after 40+ yrs and moved my family from the PRC to a firearm-friendly state, among other reasons. My location was determined by a family members medical needs, higher education for my kids, cut my expenses, and a better quality of life. Also my annuity buys more here. It's not the dream but circumstances dictated the move. Now I'm living at 7K' with snow and more rain than my former high desert home. It's a little smaller than the previous house. The priorities are water and firewood mostly. Forests are nearby as is game. Plans for a greenhouse are in the works.

Hey hamchuck...check out land just north of the I-40 near Williams, AZ.

GeneCo

Agreed, thats why I chose Florida, as it has a LOONG growing season and I hate freezing and snow. Alot of food grows wild and game is plentiful on land and water.

Also, look into water turbines, another viable power source. A running creek is desirable, but not necessary. If you have a water source uphill and can let it run downhill a ways, you can get the velocity to turn a turbine.

Depth Afield

Arizona has some of the most varied terrain, landscape, fauna and critters. What flavor of wilderness did you have in mind? IMHO, I'd either stick to the eastern border south end, or around flagstaff. The majority of the balance consists of places I'd not want to try surviving in long-term.

Philz M1A

I was looking at survivalrealty.com, basically "plug-n-play" properties all over the country. I'm just not into buying a piece of land and starting from scratch, to each his own I guess. I'm sure some on here would rather buy a huge kit and build a car to drive over 6 months in their garage, I'd rather go to the car dealer and buy one already assembled.

Great advice on this thread about all the things to consider when looking at properties, I've definitely taken note. I'm probably a couple years from picking up a second property, but check this one out as an example:

http://www.survivalrealty.com/united-states/idaho/

Basically ready to move in with lots of perks that survivalists would appreciate, I like the fact that it is already off the grid completely.

As far as affordability, I completely agree you have to live within your means. I am not one of those "debt free, every thing I buy in cash" type people, but I do live well within my means and have plenty saved up for a rainy day. For the property listed, if you could score a good deal on it (asking price is $325k, maybe get it for $300k) the payments wouldn't be that bad and you'd have a great asset. Right now is a great time to buy compared to 2007-ish when prices were ridiculously inflated.