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Talk to me about the newer Model 70's...

This is a discussion on Talk to me about the newer Model 70's... within the Bolt Action forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Local pawn shop has a Winchester Model 70, I think it's the shadow master, chambered in 7mm Magnum. Barrel's got some light rust on the ...


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Old February 20th, 2017, 12:18 AM   #1
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Talk to me about the newer Model 70's...

Local pawn shop has a Winchester Model 70, I think it's the shadow master, chambered in 7mm Magnum. Barrel's got some light rust on the outside, inside looks pretty good, no scope, price tag $299.

What I'm really interested in is the action, I've been thinking about building a long range tactical rifle in either 7mm Magnum or .300 Win mag and this might be the way to start the project, pick up the action and the rest of the parts later.

Thoughts? This would be the first Winchester bolt gun I've owned, every bolt gun I own is either Savage, Remington or my Howa 1500 in .22/250.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 03:27 AM   #2
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I am assuming the Mod. 70 you mention is one that has the long claw extractor very similar to a basic Mauser 98 action??? Winchester some years ago also offered a version known as push feed, no long claw extractor but one similar to Sako, Savage, etc. Both work OK. The Winchester Mod. 70's recoil lug is an integral part of the receiver, not a separate piece that goes between the barrel shoulder and the face of the action and it is flat bottomed, not a round action as the Remington 700 and others. Not saying one is better than the others, just a different approach. The safety switch is of 3 position type and moves in a horizontal manner, safe, switch all the way to the rear, middle position that permits bolt to open but still on safe and fully forward the firing position. Many folks like that feature. They are a solid action but advantage the Remington Mod. 700 has is that there are unlimited sources for aftermarket items for that action and many, many clones of the 700 but in fact they are basically a 700 with what some deem as improvements.
Gunsmiths normally consider the Remington action less hassle to build on for it is a simple design and easy convert to whatever level/caliber you want. Been shooting long range matches for several years and it is rare to see the long claw actions as the Mod. 70 or 98 Mauser being used. Some say the mauser design action is not as stiff, rigid, etc. as the 700 type actions and reason given to me is that there are more milling cuts in the Masuer?? Had one of the "push feed" Modl 70 actions years ago in 22-250 with Krieger barrel of 8 twist and rifle was very accurate out to and including the 1000yd. target with the 80gr. bullets. The bolt handle of the Winchesters is somewhat longer than the shorty on the 700's and gives you more leverage in opening the action between shots and in prone position with sling does not take you out of position for those long range matches are single loading only. Can you build a good shooting rifle with the one you are looking at, well the answer is yes you can just pointing out some differences.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 05:24 AM   #3
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Member above has given more detail and obviously has more knowledge of the two than I. But, as someone that bought one when thinking about a long range bolt rifle, I might add my 2 cents. I ended up buying an FN PBR (same action as the Winchester 70). Part of my decision was that the used rifle I bought had barrel length/profile and caliber that I was looking for. I did some research and found that there are some that consider the Winchester action to be superior. I believe that many people consider the Rem extractors to be a weak link. In my search for a used gun I thought that the fit and finish of the FN was better than the Rem's that I handled. All that being said. after I bought the FN, I found that when I wanted to make changes to my rifle to better suit my desired use, the aftermarket parts options for the Winchester are more limited than those for the Rem's. I don't know whether you intend to shoot the gun and upgrade as you go, or how much work you will do yourself, but if you'e a shooter that looks for used parts to upgrade your guns, as many of us do with the M14 types, you're going to find way more parts available on the used market for the Rems than you will for the Winchester action, and if you want to buy new parts you'll find a greater number of companies selling parts like chassis and detachable bottom metal for the Rem action as well. If it's a shooter, and you were OK with the caliber, I don't think you could go wrong at that price, but if you're just looking for a donor action to build a custom gun on, I think the Winchester will limit your options, just as building one on a Sako action would. The Rem 700 is th small block Chevy of the bolt action world, parts are plentiful and cheap, compared to the other actions.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 05:58 AM   #4
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I like the Savage barrel nut design a lot. It's the ultimate switch-barrel rifle and with a simple barrel nut wrench, a Go-Gauge, and a barrel vise, you can rechamber the rifle in minutes. I have two complete bolt heads to switch from the standard 30-06 case head to belted magnum case head.

The Remington 700 has some superior features that make it more popular with the long range folks. Enter the Rem-Age...(Remington-Savage)

Northland shooters supply started making barrel nuts that fit Remington 700 barrel threads. Criterion barrels now makes Remington 700 barrels with no shoulder that work with Savage style barrel nuts.

Consider this option as well.

Tony.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 06:12 AM   #5
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Would follow up on the extractor feature of the 700 type versus the long claw Win. type and one of the key features of the Win. version is that the cartridge from the magazine as bolt is shoved forward, the rim of the case slides under the extractor hook and captured until it enters the chamber. Don't see it as a big plus, but you can load this type upside down but I have never found it necessary to do that. No question that the long claw version has a better purchase/bite on the rim of the case than the Rem. version and those who hunt dangerous game as Rhinos, Elephants, Cape Buffalo feel more secure in event of a sticky case and needing the follow up shot. Any dangerous game hunts in your future?? As you I haunted the pawn shops for a "donor rifle" for had no intentions of using the barrel or stock and could pick up a 700 for about the same or less money from time to time. The Remington extractor issue is dealt with by some fearing it failing to work have a 'smith install a M16 type extractor or a Sako style. Sako is more expensive and the M16 style is very low cost and claimed to be better arrangement?? Would add that after several years have never had the Remington version to fail, but it has happened I am sure.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 08:29 AM   #6
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Not sure if this applies to the long actions, but I found, when adding detachable bottom metal to my FN, that some of the aftermarket offerings require that the receiver be machined to fit the bottom metal, which adds another inconvenience, as compared to adding DBM to a Remington short action. I've also found that the push feeds seem to cycle smoother than my FN does.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #7
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I guess things have changed since I last shot a high power match. The pre-64 Win action was the most sought after of all by far and the choice of champions if you will here in WA. Rifles built by Rick Freudenberg and Jim Cloward were the ticket, most all were pre -64 70's. As mentioned the long extractor properly referred to as "control round feed" as opposed to push feed are usually thought to be more reliable though I have had good experience with both types, even when hunting. We have two pre-64 70's here, my dads old re-barreled .284 Win, and my .300 H&H.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 03:39 PM   #8
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Two of my most used match rifles were by Jim Cloward and both are push feed Winchesters. Jim knew how to tune those so you hardly ever saw a difference in reliability. Still the controlled round feed is the ticket for those of us who have drunk the Kool-Aid.
Rick installed the barrel for my 30-338 thousand yard gun, also another Jim Cloward rifle. Jim was in Africa at the time I needed it. I also bought a pre-64 based rifle from Rick Freudenberg with a Winchester varmint barrel on it. Rick re-stocked it in a Dunlap and opened up the barrel from a 243 to 308. When we used to compete against each other he often was using that rifle. Me I restocked it again and put glass on it to play with. Good times.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaholder View Post
Local pawn shop has a Winchester Model 70, I think it's the shadow master, chambered in 7mm Magnum. Barrel's got some light rust on the outside, inside looks pretty good, no scope, price tag $299.

What I'm really interested in is the action, I've been thinking about building a long range tactical rifle in either 7mm Magnum or .300 Win mag and this might be the way to start the project, pick up the action and the rest of the parts later.

Thoughts? This would be the first Winchester bolt gun I've owned, every bolt gun I own is either Savage, Remington or my Howa 1500 in .22/250.
Nothing bad about them, only problem might be the flat vs round action (pre-64 and the SPR actions were flat, post 64 are round). The SPR/Flat pre 64 are easy to find because McMillan makes them by the ton, you can get a really nice one for ~300 bucks. Round bottom not so much.

Also like someone else said the receiver might need machining to feed an AICS mag.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 04:58 PM   #10
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True about the McMillan's, and I've got mine in an HS Precision with the aluminum bedding block, which I'm kind of OK with, but I haven't seen any Manners, or any of the Chassis type stocks that are are inlet for my action as a standard item. Anyone know of any other vertical grip types that are available for the Winchester/FN short action?

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Old February 20th, 2017, 07:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sac troop View Post
Two of my most used match rifles were by Jim Cloward and both are push feed Winchesters. Jim knew how to tune those so you hardly ever saw a difference in reliability. Still the controlled round feed is the ticket for those of us who have drunk the Kool-Aid.
Rick installed the barrel for my 30-338 thousand yard gun, also another Jim Cloward rifle. Jim was in Africa at the time I needed it. I also bought a pre-64 based rifle from Rick Freudenberg with a Winchester varmint barrel on it. Rick re-stocked it in a Dunlap and opened up the barrel from a 243 to 308. When we used to compete against each other he often was using that rifle. Me I restocked it again and put glass on it to play with. Good times.
Known JKC since I was a kid in Seattle. He moved shop a couple times, last I saw him he was about 10 years ago, had him open up the throat in a .338-06 for me. He is getting on now and pretty much retired I think. Rick F did a couple repairs for me recently as well, both superb smiths.

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Old February 20th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #12
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Way back in the day I used an old pre '64 Win in 30-06 to deer hunt with and my brother his trusty Rem 700 in the same cal.
He ALWAYS out shot me but not by much and I only paid a $1.00 for my rifle!

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Old February 21st, 2017, 03:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgun View Post
Not sure if this applies to the long actions, but I found, when adding detachable bottom metal to my FN, that some of the aftermarket offerings require that the receiver be machined to fit the bottom metal, which adds another inconvenience, as compared to adding DBM to a Remington short action. I've also found that the push feeds seem to cycle smoother than my FN does.

Love the pre 64 action of the FNs
FN kit for detachable box mag required no extra work on my SPR.
Drop in a go.



The newer Winchester 70s work finefor me 1 in .308 and the other in .223.


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Last edited by nf1e; February 21st, 2017 at 03:14 AM.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:39 AM   #14
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True about the FN bottom metal. I really like the FN bottom metal, especially that side mag release, But I found the proprietary FN mags to be less reliable than the accurate Mag and AI magazines used in other (aftermarket) bottom metal.

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Old February 21st, 2017, 04:58 AM   #15
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Last edited by POLACK; February 21st, 2017 at 07:04 AM.
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