M14 Forum

This project isn't dead, but I have been busy with other matters lately. Mostly moving the shop and pulling equipment out of storage. Shoulder's been giving fits as well, so have been trying to let it settle down for a while.

I just read your experimentation notes start to finish; you’re well over my pay grade, but I was fascinated by your work and your methods. Thanks for taking the time to publish your work in such detail. I’ve learned quite a bit about the various options available for the M14 platform.

Thanks for the info, I'm in the beginning stages of getting a load ready and this gives me some items to keep in mind. Another thing that caught my attention was your mention of your targets you have made up. Any chance you would be willing to share those files? I've been looking around for some good options with nothing catching my eye at the moment. Anyways, thanks again.

Check out MCANN Industries, $ 165.00 , US army rangers, German police, use their product. It works well for me, they also sell carbon fiber stocks. Don't use bushnell 3200 tactical the 308 semiauto action is hard on the scope. 4x12 Banner ok.

Hey guys I need some help. Yesterday I bought a m14 bolt at the gunshow and it has....WW on it is this a GI bolt and maby a Winchester. This is for my socom2 and will it work for a backup ...thanks and God Bless America

Try starting a new thread in the forums. These blogs are more observations and "diary" use.

Accuracy isn't as good as the first no name "NM" barrel, but it's far better than with the "lemon" 18 1/2" tube. And this "no name" was only $50.

Fed match shoots no better than the Prvi, which is fine! 24x scope removed and the 3x ACOG replaced. New barrel, mount and scope both off and on, and the zero was off only ~3"! Not so bad. No screamer group, but here's one at 100yds. (With a minor adjustment or two during the string.) Dot is 3/4" dia,



What's nice is that little ACOG will pick up holes as small as 3/8". The 3/4" dot is easy to see.

So, shoot a little more and then cut the barrel? Bedding tricks? (This barrel has a little less fore end tension than the other two.) New stock? Sights?

Not done, yet! But feeling more on track.

Is that your blog that you have linked?

Thanks for the visit!

I have considered the ACE tube stock, but I like to change length of pull so much, it just seemed like it would be disappointing from the outset.

8 1/2 pounds with an Aluminum chassis is outstanding!

The JAE stock was flayed to see if it could be radically lightened, but the McCann arrived shortly after the JAE's undoing, so it was promptly set aside. Lots of Al was removed, but not much weight was gone. Steel's much more rewarding.

It seems that there's no particular reason an 18 1/2" barrel ought not shoot well, as you've done plenty. Why the disaster with mine? No clue!

Yah, but it's hard on the ol' wallet! Otherwise, I really would go "mad"! The ideas festering away- you may have some notion...

Absolutely Fascinating!!!
I LIKE!!!

I have my own "WEIRD SCIENCE" experiments going on with the M14 platform, and your torturing and teasing and tweaking of the M14 into a lighter / faster / more modern ENHANCED version are right up my alley.

I will be showing some of your lightening tweaks to our team, as one of our design goals was to make our ALLOY stocked EBR 14 as light as a GI Fiberglass stocked 14 ... but handle even better with an AR 15 pistol grip and butt stock.

However, we decided that too much chasing after weight loss can eventually become a trip to crazy town .... where whoppin' big holes and lightening cuts take precedence over "Form Follows Function". Taken too far, it definitely CAN get crazy ... like my friend, who spent close to $ 2000 for the lightest mountain bike he could afford. And then went out and spent another $ 80 .... for Titanium Water bottle bolts.

And this guy weighs in at about 290 lbs????

I told him to save his money, and lose some weight off his fat butt, not his bike ... [;)

One piece of advice on your M14 lightweight project ... the NEW ACE MONOTUBE AR 15 butt stock is the lightest we have tried. You might want to add it into your "M14 Jenny Craig Weight Loss Program". This design from ACE copies the YHM MONOTUBE design in external appearance, but does NOT add the extra tube around the buffer tube that YHM uses.

Because a dented or bent buffer tube can be game stopper on an AR 15 / 10, with the reciprocating buffer jamming inside that fragile tube, I prefer the YHM REINFORCED two tube design for my primary SHTF rifle, an AR 10. But for NON-critical use, then the ACE single tube butt stock is simpler and lighter.

You can see the new ACE monotube in the pics of our EBR stock posted in my threads. With that stock, an MRD JB sight instead of the rear iron sight, a new comp, the shorty 18.5" barrel, and an empty mag, we are at 8 1/2 lbs ... and goinm' down.

PS: perhaps we should be asking for a new CATEGORY at the M14.FORUM .... call it "M14 - Weird Experiments" or "M14 - Frankenguns" or "M14 - Outside the Box." Whatever ? This could give us "M14 "Experimenters" aka "M14 Mad Scientists" a place to share our outrageous and unconventional ideas.

I learned this in computer systems work ... BRAINSTORMING, WITH NO IDEA AS "TOO OUTRAGEOUS" can be very worthwhile. The trick is to take some of those "outside the box" ideas, and translate them into stuff that really works in the real world.

And if a few M14 rifles have to suffer ... torture, and tweaking, and visits to the chop saw and the milling machine ...
well that is merely the price for progress for the M14 family as a whole.
[;)
LAZ 1

Somewhat better results with the latest 22" barrel. Not as good as the "no name" NM barrel, but hopefully it's just settling in. ACOG results were questionable, so the big old 24x was used.

Ejection pattern with a GI hammer is still too far forward- unchanged actually from that using the ShootingSight prototype, so some tuning is in order.

Finished chambering it 10 Feb. Had to carry it out a ways to comfortably accept Prvi Partizan ammo. Federal brass would not have required using a reamer at all! But the various NATO rounds all were too long at the shoulder. Amazing that the Federal match ammo is as good as it is...

Tightened up the flash hider. No idea why it became loose. Odd...

Had to put a regular hammer in as the Art7 prototype unit is going off for tests after it's many modifications.

Still contemplating another ACOG mounting solution.

Thanks for the comment! A huge thanks if you waded through the entire three pages of comments! (ETA: Note to new readers: You are starting on page four of the comments if you are a bit confused about the lack of info above.)

It's much better now that a 22" barrel is back on. Headspace is a little tight, and the straight through reamed flash hider worked loose somehow (???) but the initial outing with iron sights was better than the scoped "groups" with the 18 1/2" barrel.

It seems weight reduction has halted for this project for now. So Part II will focus on increased capabilities.

Wonderful work man! :)

Whilst changing the barrel- again- the scope mount had to come off so here's supplemental photos:





May ditch a conventional mount altogether...

18.5" barrel is OFF!

Found a 6 groove 22" no name barrel whilst rooting through a friend's barrel pile that isn't reduced in diameter behind the front sight. So it may be a good candidate for a gradual shortening exercise. At $50, it's a cheap way to experiment- IF it shoots and headspaces well...

Finally, range time. Tried the rifle in the JAE stock and with the 24x B&L, but no particular improvement in accuracy noted, even using 168gn FGMM.


Beauty and the Beast

However, the barrel tensioner wasn't doing anything. Plumb forgot to adjust it! 20rds downrange, trying to let things settle in. The groups look bad, but aside from a random few flyers, it's like the zero just continally wanders. Generally odd. And frustrating.

The JAE benches well, what with all the flat surfaces, and holding on the center of the 3/4" dot is pretty easy. Tried hardest to shoot this rifle carefully of the three at the range today and did the worst.




One more box of 168gn Federal Gold Medal Match ammo wasted...

22" barrel may be going back on soon.

"Complete trigger groups now weigh 8.5 oz. (old) and 9.2 oz. (new)" From 10 Sept 2011.

Due to a request from a forumer, the two lightened trigger groups were re-weighed. They are now both 8.2 ounces. Some changes in both groups, both now have hollowed hammer spring plungers and increasingly lighter hammers.

But the mods aren't primarily for weight reduction, but for better accuracy, esp. when firing unsupported.

No range reports this week, too much else going on.

Before swapping barrels again, the McCann will take a break to see if the tunable JAE "skeleton" stock will help accuracy any. The old flash hider is back on for a baseline check.

Another sub-freezing test day.

Accuracy with the USGI flash hider showed no real improvement, but not much zero shift either. A little low.



Swapped the FH out for a SEI muzzle brake that pre-dates the USCG contract. It's been long modified and shot to failure across the top rear slot. A good friend welded the cracks, so on it went. It seems straight, and checks out fine using a close fitting bore gage pin, so what's up with this "group"?



Dang. Not too good! Will check it directly for dramas.

ETA: no good explaination for it! Phooey! This was all going smoothly before the short barrel...