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LC/WCC 7.62mm Brass

This is a discussion on LC/WCC 7.62mm Brass within the Bargains forums, part of the Classifieds category; Apparently Wideners has LC and WCC mixed headstamp, non machine gun, once fired 7.62x51mm brass pretty cheap. Like $65/500. Here's the link: http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...78|282|909|980 Someone on ...


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Old April 16th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #1
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LC/WCC 7.62mm Brass

Apparently Wideners has LC and WCC mixed headstamp, non machine gun, once fired 7.62x51mm brass pretty cheap. Like $65/500. Here's the link:

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...78|282|909|980

Someone on another forum e-mailed them about it being MG fired and they replied that it wasn't. Anyone else heard about it?

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Old April 16th, 2010, 11:02 AM   #2
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No, havent heard about it, but I assume the primers are crimped?

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Old April 16th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #3
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Although I just bought machine gun once fired LC Brass, I was wondering how good of a price I got. But now I think I got a steal. I got $75/1000, got 4k and that price included shipping. I know the throat is a bit beat up, but hopefully the stuff will do the trick. Is there something I should be aware of other than resizing this stuff? I have never reloaded before, but a friend was going to teach me.

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Old April 16th, 2010, 11:34 AM   #4
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MG Brass

Sir, the chambers in MGs are notoriously pretty large. The brass has to stretch quite a bit to fit those chambers. This makes the brass harder to re-size to fit a "normal" rifle chamber and can weaken it. I just won't use MG fired brass in my M1A. Last year at our M1A/M14 match we had a gentlemen who was using once fired MG brass for his loads and sure enough one let go back at the case head. He's lucky it just blew the mag out and caused no other damage, other than the "8" he scored in SFP.

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Old April 16th, 2010, 11:35 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ddeaton View Post
No, havent heard about it, but I assume the primers are crimped?
Don't know. Have to check with them.

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Old April 18th, 2010, 10:25 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by TCAF View Post
Sir, the chambers in MGs are notoriously pretty large. The brass has to stretch quite a bit to fit those chambers. This makes the brass harder to re-size to fit a "normal" rifle chamber and can weaken it. I just won't use MG fired brass in my M1A. Last year at our M1A/M14 match we had a gentlemen who was using once fired MG brass for his loads and sure enough one let go back at the case head. He's lucky it just blew the mag out and caused no other damage, other than the "8" he scored in SFP.
This was not caused by a case-head separation. A case-head separation is a process of extraction and hence not caused until after the bullet has moved past the gas port. All powder would have been burned and the extraction process begun. This is caused by excessive stress on the brass near the web. The gentleman you spoke of had an out of battery ignition or another failure. A case-head separation caused by brass thinning at the web of 5X-fired brass will not casue the magazine to blow out. Probably not resized properly and he had a slight out of battery or slam-fire.

You should not try and diagnose and claim to know what caused a failure unless you are sure. Reloading is a science and needs to be safe. There is no room for assumptions. A case-head separation will not casue the mag to blow out. Dead wrong.

I have fired more machine gun fired brass than I can imagine. What rifle in the armed forces uses 7.62 NATO by the thousands and is not a machine gun????? It's all machine gun fired and it's fine. Just get a case gauge and resize. I only reload for 3 more firings and then chuck it.

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Old April 18th, 2010, 10:32 AM   #7
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Someone on another forum e-mailed them about it being MG fired and they replied that it wasn't. Anyone else heard about it?
And you believe them????? Come on.....

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Old April 18th, 2010, 04:51 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by hammonje View Post

I have fired more machine gun fired brass than I can imagine. What rifle in the armed forces uses 7.62 NATO by the thousands and is not a machine gun????? It's all machine gun fired and it's fine. Just get a case gauge and resize. I only reload for 3 more firings and then chuck it.
True story guys. Take all the guess work out and get a case gauge. I like Dillon, but that is a personal preference. I like the 3 load rule, however using the paper clip method will help you keep an eye on potential issues before they become a problem.

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Old April 20th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #9
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I had a case head seperation just this weekend and no, my mag did not blow out. I was lucky that both pieces of the case ejected out though. It was professional reloads on most likely MG fired brass.

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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:01 AM   #10
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What in earth makes you guys think a case-head separation is caused by machine gun fired brass??? Was it LC/WCC/FC NATO brass????

A case-head separation is due to the thinning of brass near the web upon repeated reloads. I know of no one that has experienced a case-head separation on the second firing. The most probable and likely explanation is that brass case was not on it's second firing and more likely the fifth firing. Case-head separations are rare and due to brass weakness.

A case-head separation is caused by the combined pressure exerted on the caselip by the action of the extractor/ejector. Gas passes the port, pushes the gas piston against the op-rod, and through camming action unlocks the bolt and rotates it out of battery and back to cock the hammer. The op-rod springs stored up potential energy is utilized to bring the bolt forward, strip a new round from the mag, and back into battery. The action does not unlock the bolt until the barrel has reached atmospheric pressure, otherwise hot gases would blow in your face upon bolt unlock.

Following me. Good.

The case-head is torn off through the extraction/ejection process. The case is weakened near the web as it stretches each time it is resized. It weakens just forward of the web. Always in the same place. When you trim a case after firing that is brass lost from the body and the case gets weaker through thinning and stress. Extraction/ejection happens when the powder is already burnt and the bullet is gone from the barrel. The rifle must be relatively quite mechanically until the bullet leaves the barrel or you would have an innaccurrate system.

That is why there is no way to have a case-head separation in the classical sense cause a magazine to blow out. The guy had an out of battery firing in all likelyhood. An out of battery firing could do any number of things to a case.

Most 7.62 NATO brass is machine gun fired and is good to go. I don't understand why people have this misconception that someone has 40k cases fired single shot. Where???? The military stuff is from 30 caliber machine guns in all likelyhood. If someone tells you it's not they don't know or are not being truthful.

Buy it up, load it up, and shoot it up. It's all good. Get yourself a cartridge case gauge in .308 Win and be safe.

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Old April 21st, 2010, 06:37 AM   #11
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I had a case rupture one time that did blow the floorplate out of a mag in a FAL. This was about 18 years ago and it was some ammo that I got from a relative that we supposed to have been surplus military. Turned out it was reloaded and when I fired it, the case ruptured from the primer pocket up across the head. That is different than a case separation. I've had several of those over the years and have been nothing more than aggrevating.

As for the rest of the ammo from that batch? I happened to be right next to a nice muddy pond. Also, that relative fell off my "trusted people" list.

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Old April 21st, 2010, 07:09 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by hammonje View Post
This was not caused by a case-head separation. A case-head separation is a process of extraction and hence not caused until after the bullet has moved past the gas port. All powder would have been burned and the extraction process begun. This is caused by excessive stress on the brass near the web. The gentleman you spoke of had an out of battery ignition or another failure. A case-head separation caused by brass thinning at the web of 5X-fired brass will not casue the magazine to blow out. Probably not resized properly and he had a slight out of battery or slam-fire.

You should not try and diagnose and claim to know what caused a failure unless you are sure. Reloading is a science and needs to be safe. There is no room for assumptions. A case-head separation will not casue the mag to blow out. Dead wrong.

I have fired more machine gun fired brass than I can imagine. What rifle in the armed forces uses 7.62 NATO by the thousands and is not a machine gun????? It's all machine gun fired and it's fine. Just get a case gauge and resize. I only reload for 3 more firings and then chuck it.
Sir, I don't proport to know "everything" about reloading, never have and never will. I know what I saw, the case ruptured just forward of the case head. I do know what I read however and this article clearly states that MG brass should not be used http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

If you want to use MG brass then that's your choice, however, please don't knock others who choose not to. There is military 7.62 brass out there that is non-MG fired. I agree most of the surplus 7.62 is probably MG brass, but you can find non-MG brass though it will be more expensive, but my rifle is worth it. Widener's states they do not sell MG fired brass and I believe them.

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Old April 22nd, 2010, 07:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by TCAF View Post
Sir, I don't proport to know "everything" about reloading, never have and never will. I know what I saw, the case ruptured just forward of the case head. I do know what I read however and this article clearly states that MG brass should not be used http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

If you want to use MG brass then that's your choice, however, please don't knock others who choose not to. There is military 7.62 brass out there that is non-MG fired. I agree most of the surplus 7.62 is probably MG brass, but you can find non-MG brass though it will be more expensive, but my rifle is worth it. Widener's states they do not sell MG fired brass and I believe them.
I just called Widener's and they had no idea if it was MG fired or not. They had zero proof and no data. They stated if it was MG fired than it would have a distorted/bent case mouth. Hogwash...just what I thought. They have no idea where it came from.....zero. It looks like MG fired brass from the photo. The case is swollen from a generous MG chamber. Again they have zero proof it was shot from an M14, M24, or M40. Learn to think for yourself.....gun retailers lie. I just received 2600 MG fired LC cases and there is not a single ding on any of the 2600 cases. Don't be fooled so easily. Not that I wouldn't buy it, but it looks like the brass has probably hardened from exposure to the elements. I got 2600 cases for $270 shipped from a guy ob FAL Files and they looked brand new.

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Old April 22nd, 2010, 05:22 PM   #14
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your m1a is a MG

Your M1A is a MG. you just don't have the fun button. (can be fixed if you want to get the tax stamp). I do not think that they build a totally different rifle for the civ. usage? I don't know but personally but I would say they made a minimal amount of changes to the design for the sake of mfg. costs. If you don't want to shoot it that's your choice.

Most safe re-loaders and almost all hand loaders inspect there cases before even considering them for a reload. It is unfortunate that witnessing one bad incident could throw you off of mg brass but its important to have confidence in reloading so do what you must.

But if you don't want to fire mg reloads then I wouldn't collect your brass and reload it. The chamber on a m1a my be smaller than a .30 cal mg but it is still a mg in the designe of the wepon system. ie: receiver, bolt, barrel.

not trying to piss anyone off just puting it how i see it.

There are many great sources for knowledge out there this site being one of them. As with all my information i get off the net I just assume that a 12 yr old has gotten a hold of mommy and daddy's computer and decided to type bs. If i find enough people agree with a specific post then i give it some further thought. Treat my post the same way as i dont know what im talking about. please I would until i did alot of research. I am jsut babbling right now so good night

J

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Old April 23rd, 2010, 06:42 AM   #15
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Sir, you and Mr. hammonje can see it any way you want. I just like to believe that a reputable firm like Sierra knows what they are talking about when it comes to MG brass (see the above link I posted). By the way, ALL the brass I use to reload for my M1A is non-MG. It's all once shot M118 match brass outa my rifle. No reason for folks to get so wound up over this. You wanta use MG brass-knock yourselves out, I just prefer not to and think everyone should have access to all info so that they can make up their own minds, see below paragraph from "Realoading for Gas Guns" taken from the Sierra 5th edition relaoding manual. Now, how about we just let this go? Thanks.

Reloaders will occasionally encounter very appealing deals on once-fired 7.62mm NATO cases. Almost without exception, these are cases that have been fired in machine guns. With their generous chambers (and frequently open-bolt operation), many of these cases are stretched or bulged so badly that they can not be reloaded safely or cost effectively. In the case of used military brass, the old adage that “what seems too good to be true, isn’t,” is good advice. Unless the brass comes with a known pedigree, such as Match brass that was fired in M14s, M24 or M40 sniper rifles, pass it by. It’s false economy to invest the extra time required to get this brass to a point where it might be usable, or risk an expensive rifle or your safety trying to save a few bucks on cases.


Last edited by TCAF; April 23rd, 2010 at 07:00 AM. Reason: added more info
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