Pillar bedding discussion.. - Page 2 - M14 Forum

M14 Forum


Pillar bedding discussion..

This is a discussion on Pillar bedding discussion.. within the Art Luppino forums, part of the Gun Professionals category; We are slightly different, because I designed this system assuming no rear lug. I don't think it is the end-all solution, as I think lugs ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > Gun Professionals > Art Luppino

16Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old December 11th, 2016, 08:51 PM   #16
Site Sponsor
 
ShootingSight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,769
We are slightly different, because I designed this system assuming no rear lug.

I don't think it is the end-all solution, as I think lugs do have a place, and a good place. I have simply not sat down to figure out how to incorporate them in my design. Not that this has been un-noticed, incorporating a rear lug has been discussed, and will eventually fall in.

So please do not take any of my comments to be counter to your experience or thoughts. My position is merely a stepping stone.

ShootingSight is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 11th, 2016, 09:11 PM   #17
Super Moderator
 
tonyben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 9,037

Awards Showcase

Was there a thread illustrating your system? I'd like to research it before you send me one.

Tony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingSight View Post
We are slightly different, because I designed this system assuming no rear lug.

I don't think it is the end-all solution, as I think lugs do have a place, and a good place. I have simply not sat down to figure out how to incorporate them in my design. Not that this has been un-noticed, incorporating a rear lug has been discussed, and will eventually fall in.

So please do not take any of my comments to be counter to your experience or thoughts. My position is merely a stepping stone.

tonyben is offline  
Old December 12th, 2016, 07:09 AM   #18
Site Sponsor
 
ShootingSight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,769
Poop. Yes, there is a thread. But I just went to look it up, and all the pictures are gone. I suspect that's my fault, as I decided to clean up and consolidate all pictures on my web storage folder, so I suspect I moved stuff, and all the old links are simply broken.

I'm working on getting these up on my web page for sale, I'll make sure to include lots of pictures, or maybe a pdf people can download. I'll likely also add to my old post - I don't want to derail this thread.

Thanks from tonyben
ShootingSight is offline  
 
Old December 12th, 2016, 07:25 AM   #19
Doc
Lifer
 
Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MS
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
When Derick Martin double lugged my rifle in its Mac stock, the trigger group had minimal pressure enough too keep it closed. The best I could describe it was when latched it hung underneath not too loose not too snug it was along for the ride more or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
Pic's of my stock didn't survive the computer transfer there is a pillar under each lug bedded inside the stock, one under the rear and one in the mag well for the front. One short bolt for the front and a longer for the rear. Without some type of pillar the bolts would eat into the bedding.
My double lug was done by Clint Fowler back in the 1980's. My trigger was also "just along for the ride, with little tension".

Phil, I will try to attach a couple pictures of my stock to show how the front and rear lugs are installed.
Luckily I have a few pictures to remember this gun by as it, along with my other guns, was lost in the MS River in a boating accident.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bedding-all-1.jpg (19.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg bedding-front-1.jpg (22.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg bedding-rear-1.jpg (19.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0420.jpg (20.2 KB, 12 views)

Thanks from tonyben

Last edited by Doc; December 12th, 2016 at 07:41 AM.
Doc is offline  
Old December 12th, 2016, 11:32 AM   #20
Lifer
 
Bamban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,849

Awards Showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingSight View Post
Interesting timing to the question, as I am sitting here typing up the product description for my pillar bedding system I will have up for sale on my website later today.

I think a pillar does/can provide several benefits. For one, you want something solid. When you clamp the receiver to the trigger group, what is between them should be stout enough that the tension from the trigger hooks, or from your lug bolt, will seat the receiver onto its mating surface with enough force that it will not move under recoil. Achieveing this by clamping onto horizontal surfaces means you have to rely on friction, a rear lug gives you a vertical surface to bear against, and is more robust.

Wood is slightly compressive, so not ideal, epoxy is better, metal is pretty much solid. In this pecking order of solidness, a metal pillar that has a skim coat of bedding material on both faces will be very nearly as solid as a pure metal pillar.

The skim coating of bedding material does two other things:

1. On a microscopic scale, metal is rarely flat. It is a series of peaks and valleys. When you put two metal surfaces together, the percent surface contact is no where near 100%; it is the peaks of each surface that take all the load, and the valleys are relatively load free. So bedding can help fill in the gaps and increase the bearing area.

2. On a slightly larger scale (and this really applies to lugs), the rear face of the legs is a vertical surface that withstands recoil, and the rear face of the lug will withstand recoil. Trouble is: if the distance between the rear of the legs and the rear of the lug does not EXACTLY match the distance between the corresponding surfaces on the stock, it will be one or the other that takes all the load, not both. By adding in the skim coating of bedding, the stock will be closer to an exact match to the receiver dimensions, and the recoil load will be more evenly distributed.

I agree, bedding material between the two metal parts is better than metal to metal, IMHO. Besides what Neergaard mentioned about the surface roughness, I think unless the pillar and the lug are surface ground flat before assembly there is no telling how the two mates.

Bamban is offline  
Old December 12th, 2016, 01:33 PM   #21
Lifer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: kerrville. texas
Posts: 2,915
check you old M1A,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamban View Post
I agree, bedding material between the two metal parts is better than metal to metal, IMHO. Besides what Neergaard mentioned about the surface roughness, I think unless the pillar and the lug are surface ground flat before assembly there is no telling how the two mates.
The one with 5,000 rds fired...Art

art luppino is offline  
Old December 12th, 2016, 01:35 PM   #22
Lifer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: kerrville. texas
Posts: 2,915
check your old M1A,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamban View Post
I agree, bedding material between the two metal parts is better than metal to metal, IMHO. Besides what Neergaard mentioned about the surface roughness, I think unless the pillar and the lug are surface ground flat before assembly there is no telling how the two mates.
The one with 5,000 rds fired...Art

art luppino is offline  
Old December 12th, 2016, 03:44 PM   #23
Automatic Rifleman
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Florida / Alabama
Posts: 170
This thread got me thinking about a couple McMillan stocks I picked up recently. They are supposed to be Navy / Crane takeoff stocks from match rifles. I still need to run the last 4 of the serial numbers to verify if they are navy, but I can see the drawing number in the glass and they do appear to have been on real M14s. Anyway after reading this thread I wanted to look and see how they were bedded. The rear pillar looks very similar to Docs photos above. Of note the rear pillar does not touch the lug and has a significant gap between top of pillar and surface of the bedding. There is also a skim coat between trigger group and bottom of pillar. Front pillar looks to be made from same material as the rear and also looks to have a gap between the top of pillar and bottom of lug. No skim coat to cover front pillar.

Does anyone know who put the lugs on navy rifles? I don't think crane would have done this but I could be wrong. I would like to eventually build one of these stocks. With them I also got trigger group, bolt and barrels.

4gundrill is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > Gun Professionals > Art Luppino

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Response: Pillar bedding art luppino Art Luppino 7 September 9th, 2016 10:32 PM
Pillar bedding part 2.. art luppino The M14 9 January 29th, 2012 04:55 PM
Pillar bedding Gus Fisher Accuracy 4 October 8th, 2009 10:48 AM
Pillar bedding a single lug, torque screw rifle. Gus Fisher Accuracy 3 October 6th, 2009 04:05 PM
Pillar Bedding dighawaii Bolt Action 4 May 22nd, 2004 05:42 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List