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Skim bedding History, commentary..

This is a discussion on Skim bedding History, commentary.. within the Art Luppino forums, part of the Gun Professionals category; Skim bedding came to life as a means to keep a Match M14 active after there were indications of groups opening up during a more ...


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Old November 4th, 2016, 06:45 AM   #1
Lifer
 
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Skim bedding History, commentary..

Skim bedding came to life as a means to keep a Match M14 active after there were indications of groups opening up during a more than one day Match. It was an experiment,,, that first saw life at Camp Perry by the Marines..

The method used was a "quick fix", the contact surfaces of the receiver and wood stocks were painted with a fast drying coat of varnish, or similar product, re-assembled and dried over night. No routing was done, the contact surfaces were cleaned with acetone, painted with the agent used and any excess cleaned off. This method was not called skim bedding, it was refered to as "A glue in".. These glue in rifles were re-bedded before the next Match..

The results were mixed but not forgotten, which lead to a more detailed method so well explained by Gus Fisher... Mr. Fisher came later, he may have been an original developer involved in the skim bedding procedure.. Skim bedding is not a quick fix however, it requires almost the same amount of time and labor as a standard bedding job.

When the skim bedding was done the thin layer of material had a tendency to flake... This flaking can be upsetting to the Shooter. The flaking issue was solved by routing to allow more bedding material to be uesd. It is important to control the amount of routing to preserve the original to overcome compacting, which would leave you right where you started.


Not being a fan of either method I suggest to those who are thinking about sikm bedding to understand they may not solve the issue of accuracy and end up having the rifle bedding anyway. It may be worth the effort, but odds are against you.. To make matters more confusing,,, it is an excellent procedure to shim the trigger housing before taking on skim bedding.

Accuracy is a subjective term, Match accuracy compared to group accuracy are not the same... Art

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Old November 4th, 2016, 07:55 AM   #2
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thanks Art,

Can you elaborate on this statement a bit? How do they differ or wouldn't you need group accuracy to achieve match accuracy?

Accuracy is a subjective term, Match accuracy compared to group accuracy are not the same... Art

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Old November 4th, 2016, 08:27 AM   #3
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Accuracy

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thanks Art,

Can you elaborate on this statement a bit? How do they differ or wouldn't you need group accuracy to achieve match accuracy?

Accuracy is a subjective term, Match accuracy compared to group accuracy are not the same... Art

The difference is, in Match shooting the shooter is attempting to impact a target in a specific area, in accuracy rifle testing the rifle is being tested to determine how close one impact is to another, location can be anywhere on a given target..

Yes, a Match rifle needs a degree of accuracy and the Shooter needs skills. Look at the size of the ten ring on the NRA match tartets and figure out the degree of accuracy the rifle is required to have to shoot a perfect score, you may be supprised.. Art

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Old November 4th, 2016, 08:39 AM   #4
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thanks Art

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Old November 4th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art luppino View Post
Look at the size of the ten ring on the NRA match tartets and figure out the degree of accuracy the rifle is required to have to shoot a perfect score, you may be supprised.. Art
If your rifle reliably groups at or under 1.50 inches at 100 yards, you should be able to clean the course at an NRA High-Power Match. Back in my day, that was what we all wanted - "a 1.5 MOA M14/M1A". (Edit: The actual 10-ring is 2.07 MOA at 600 and 1000 yards. A real 1 MOA rifle will pretty much guarantee you should never lose, a perfect score and all Xs, if you do your part.)



With the old "A"-Course qualification, if you were issued a 3 MOA rifle, you should be able to score a 250 (max score). A 2.0 MOA rifle would get about half the Vs


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Old November 4th, 2016, 12:34 PM   #6
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Just a little observation . . .

If there is a large imbalance between the quality of rifle and the shooter, a more accurate rifle is a determent.

Assume a hypothetical situation where you have a perfect rifle, a laser that the bullet goes exactly where the sights are pointed. A less than perfect shooter will have holes where his, imperfectly aimed, shots were pointed, whereas with a moderately inaccurate rifle, with a certain dispersion, he will have the law of averages on his side, and there is a better chance of putting a bullet where he wanted, even though he didn't actually aim there.

That's how machine guns work.

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Old November 4th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #7
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Just a different way to say the same thing

The rifle doesn't have any accuracy. It either has or does not have precision. Precision meaning that the impact point will be repeatable.

The shooter doesn't have any precision. He, or she, either has or does not have accuracy. Meaning the shooter can repeatably determine the impact point.

Some of us have rifles with more precision or less precision than we could make use of. Some of us have less accuracy than we would like. But some have both a precise rifle and the skills to be accurate. Those shoot high scores.

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Old November 4th, 2016, 01:09 PM   #8
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Anyway, if you are one of those guys that have a bunch of "sub-MOA" rack grade AR-15s, or M1As, you should be mopping up the competition at NRA matches, especially those shot at reduced ranges, like 100 yards, where doping the wind is a minor factor....

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Old November 4th, 2016, 06:02 PM   #9
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Anyway, if you are one of those guys that have a bunch of "sub-MOA" rack grade AR-15s, or M1As, you should be mopping up the competition at NRA matches
Oh, yeah, I gotta sub MOA rifle.....with a 2 MOA wobble zone!

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Old November 4th, 2016, 06:22 PM   #10
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You are in good company.

Match shooting or Position shooting as some refer to it, tests the skills of the shooter, bench rest shooting tests the quality of the weapon and ammo.. Art

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Old November 4th, 2016, 07:32 PM   #11
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Old comment about excellent Position shooters or Long Range shooters is that they are what is called "hard holders." Experienced coach/instructor would offer that shooting is to be thought of as a Dixie Cup w/ pointed end at the muzzle and your shots at the open end on the target. Further explanation is that you have two cones of accuracy, an outer cone and an inner cone on the target face. If your outer cone is say the 7 ring and the inner cone is the 9 ring that would not qualify as a "hard holder." If your outer ring is the 9 ring and inner cone in the 10 or X ring, that would be classed as a "hard holder." Even with a high quality rifle for position shooting all shooters will have these two cones of accuracy, some just smaller than others. If your rifle shows that it is a 1moa accurate rifle from the bench then your skill in shooting it needs to take advantage of that accuracy without use of support other than the sling. 10 ring is some 2 moa and X ring 1 moa so it's up to you to keep them in that area of the target, you have to shoot as good as the gun does so to speak. For those known as "hard holders" their outer cone would be at extreme the 9 ring and inner score of 10's and X's would give them the higher scores at the end of the match. Shrinking your outer cone and consequently the inner cone sounds easy enough, only takes several years of practice to attain, but it can be done.
I don't give much credit for accuracy at the 100yd. line and much prefer at least the 200yd. target but if you were to shoot a few 20rnd. strings, sling/mat/prone, it will tell you after measuring whatever spread of the shots on the target will reveal just what your outer cone and inner cone happen to be. Try it with both issue sights as well as optics and the variance of the outer and inner cone will not vary much if any, the scope does not make the rifle more accurate, the shooter does that with his skill in either case. Just some suggestions.

Thanks from art luppino

Last edited by Instructor; November 4th, 2016 at 07:33 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old November 5th, 2016, 04:32 PM   #12
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Art, Thank-you for all your great info. I for one really appreciate it.

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