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February 18th, 2012, 03:12 PM
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#16 | | Lifer
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,348
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When I was in the Army Carter was president. He and his wife forced the "attachment" of females to the ceremonial units of the army and marines (both combat arms MOS units while the other 3 branches were not and already had women in them).
Remember, above a certain paygrade (civilian or military - or politician) the ratio of smarts vs. higher levels decreases quite a bit. As anyone who has been in the military can tell you - there are good officers and NCOs out there but they are not only outnumbered but often below a worthless example of human crap in the command chain.
The woman that were attached to our company (Honor Guard Co. of the Old Guard - this was in 1978) were a mixture of pretty good to worthless. Sex off post at lunch for some of the NCOs was a regular thing. A couple of them got married to guys in the unit. One of them was said to be fooling around on here husband anytime we went anywhere that she was by herself for a few nights - fooling around with guys in another company, not one or two but several at the same time. Whenever there was a break in training (remember the smoke breaks? "they said take 5, you expect 3 and you get about 2 minutes  ) it was like flies on dogshit. I don't know how the women could breathe with so many people packed around them.
I can remember one or two of them not working some of the hottest, muggiest days (or the really cold nasty ones) due to "cramps, pain, etc." brought on by "that time of the month". I didn't know whether to be glad they weren't there or to be pissed because they got to wear the tab but didn't have to sweat/freeze like the guys did.
All in all, I would not be happy to be in combat with a female. There is no way they can carry the weight of gear, ammo, weapons in the conditions or the distance men carry it. Oh sure, here and there, there is bound to be a few women who can carry the load but that doesn't make up for the other issues.
Haven't the Israeli's removed women from the combat arms jobs in their military? Something about men getting attached and taking chances (getting killed) trying to save injured/dead female soldiers when they would not have taken those risks for other men in the unit? I may have read that wrong or remembered it wrong.
Just not a good idea and yes, the guy at the top isn't doing the smart thing, he's doing his best to destroy a good thing - a whole lot of good things. And succeeding at too many of them.
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February 18th, 2012, 04:14 PM
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#17 | | Old Salt
Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coastal NC
Posts: 1,861
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During our float back in 2000, the ship we were on had to divert 4 times because pregnant females had to be taken off due to pregnancy issues.
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February 18th, 2012, 07:11 PM
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#18 | | Designated Marksman
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Yuma, AZ
Posts: 557
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Originally Posted by GARRARD  This isn't the final word, but here's what is now open to women.
13M- MLRS Crewman
13P- MLRS Operations/Fire Direction Specialist
13R- Field Artillery Firefinder Radar Operation Specialist
91A- M1 Abrams Tank Systems Mechanic
91M- Bradley Fighting Vehicle System Maintainer
91P- Artillery Mechanic | And the physical standards for those MOSs will now be 'gender-neutral' (read: female). 'Hey sweetheart, go pull the TNB (Turret Network Box) and HDB (Hull Distribution Box) out of that tank. Whatd'ya mean you can't lift them? Okay, go help the crew break track. You can't do that, either?'
Last edited by nicholst55; February 19th, 2012 at 06:10 AM.
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February 18th, 2012, 07:26 PM
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#19 | | Designated Marksman
Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cleman Barracks, Dept. of The Columbia.
Posts: 616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholst55 'Hey sweetheart, go pull the TNB (Turret Network Box) and HDB (Hull Distribution Box) out of that tank. Whatd'ya mean you can't lift them? Okay, go help the crew break track You can't do that, either?' | BRAVO ZULU!!!
Exactly!!!!!!.... reminds me of a Corps Level CPX shortly before I retired and the Female (Staff NBC NCO) SFC's response to a question I asked her about our S3 section Generator set...
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February 19th, 2012, 05:12 AM
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#20 | | Lifer
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 2,348
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Originally Posted by nicholst55 And the physical standards for those MOSs will now be 'gender-neutral' (read: female). 'Hey sweetheart, go pull the TNB (Turret Network Box) and HDB (Hull Distribution Box) out of that tank. Whatd'ya mean you can't lift them? Okay, go help the crew break track You can't do that, either?' | Reminded me of something my dad told me 30 years ago. He said he couldn't imagine working with women on air planes (he was in the Air Force - avionics for over 20 years). He said he was trying to think of some way to tell a woman to get on her back, stick her head up under the instrument panel, spread her legs to try to hold herself in position (upside down and hanging off the edge of the seat) and then put the black flashlight in your mouth to hold the light on the wires/connections you were working on so you could use both hands to work.
I'm sure there are places/things worked on with other pieces of equipment that could lead to an interesting conversation.
While I know some men cringe at the recoil of a good shooting M14 (I've even had men?? complain about the recoil of an AR15, believe it or not) I remember one time at Ft. A.P. Hill when we were qualifying with our M14's we had 3 women from some other outfit show up and ask to borrow a rifle and qualify (they had missed the opportunity to qualify with their outfits). One broke down and cried due to the recoil (the CO threw her off the range, "ain't no soldier going to cry on my range!"), one failed to qualify (don't know how much "help" she had but she still failed to qualify) and the last managed to qualify at the minimum level after she was "given" a few targets since she was "so close".
I know there are women that don't mind recoil. I can still picture my wife shooting a 1911 and the gun being up above her head after every shot - and then running the targets back to the booth to see every hole from that magazine was in the black on the target (hell, my buddy couldn't shoot that good). I sure as hell don't want my wife in combat.
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February 19th, 2012, 05:34 AM
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#21 | | Master Gunner
Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Ozarks
Posts: 877
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I heard the story from both a recruit who had been present and a battalion chaplain, but when Krulak jr. was commandant, he was under political pressure from feminist groups to assign female DI's to male boot camp. His solution was to form a platoon of these candy-asses and see if they could cut the routine of male boot camp. It didn't take long before they were puking and crying on the side of a road. Male formations double-timed by them and they were jeered. Krulak jr., at least tried to maintain our standards. Now they have female DI's at MCRD, so go figure.
Affemitive action has now permeated both the Marine Corps League and the MODD with a state commandant who flunked out after three weeks of OCS and never earned a globe and anchor in any capacity. This individual was fond of wearing bogus sergeant's stripes and an unearned good conduct ribbon on also unearned dress blues. When members of a particular detachment asked to see a copy of her 214, they were threatened by district with having their charter revoked.
Semper Fi!
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February 19th, 2012, 05:42 AM
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#22 | | Grunt
Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: colorado
Posts: 84
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Originally Posted by M1A's r BEST One broke down and cried due to the recoil (the CO threw her off the range, "ain't no soldier going to cry on my range!"), one failed to qualify (don't know how much "help" she had but she still failed to qualify) and the last managed to qualify at the minimum level after she was "given" a few targets since she was "so close". | Oh man, I had forgotten about those moments. We had two of em bawlin on the range one day when we were getting ready to deploy. One of them was crying about the recoil and the other one was crying because she wasn't strong enough to hold the weapon up during close quarters marksmanship. Holy crap, if you are not strong enough to hold up an m-16 what are you doing here? 
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February 19th, 2012, 06:47 AM
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#23 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Florida
Posts: 492
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My issue is that they will de motivate the unit, cause them to be all PC and have to worry more about that than the enemy, they will effeminize whatever combat unit they are in
You take a group of hard corp combat types, drop a female in the mix and watch them lose their aggression and testosterone
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February 19th, 2012, 12:55 PM
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#25 | | Grunt
Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Maryland
Posts: 114
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Originally Posted by Mindfield My issue is that they will de motivate the unit, cause them to be all PC and have to worry more about that than the enemy, they will effeminize whatever combat unit they are in
You take a group of hard corp combat types, drop a female in the mix and watch them lose their aggression and testosterone | It becomes even more funny when she's hot...
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