This is a discussion on U. S. Marines ammo penetration test within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; this guy has guts for sure but he knows that this glass is good stuff.
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U. S. ARMY VET
"All gave ...
Was interesting. The AK had pretty damn good penetration compared to a lot of those. Was surprised at the SAW not doing so well. And it was kind of odd the narrator saying the bullets would eventually eat away at a brick wall. Well, duh. If you had infinite ammo and a magic gun you could eventually shoot through mount everest too.
Kind of shows you though that a house, especially a wood one, is really only good for obscuring your location.
This may explain why the rumors that the Russians weren't happy with the 5.45's performance in urban combat areas in Chechnya and requested 7.62x39 AK's for troops there.
I wish they'd tested some other 5.56 projectiles (e.g. Mk 262 Mod 1, Mk 318 and M885A1), as well as 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel. I don't know whether or not the Lightweight Small Arms Technology project will come to anything or not, but it's damed sure it won't achieve its full potential unless they look beyond the 5.56 projectiles they're now using. They're supposed to look at "intermediate' (between 5.56 and 7.62) calibers, but given the current budget situation and the withdrawal from Iraq, I'm thinking we may be stuck with what we have for a long time.
At least our troops have some 7.62x51 options (M14, M110, SCARH, etc.)
While the video is interesting, I'd play devil's advocate for a minute. Last I knew, rifles were designed to kill people - not buildings. Yes, barriers must be taken into account but that's why we have other weapons like grenade launchers etc. As to to AK-47, while I understand the fascination with this rifle for some, I would just point out that this rifle was long ago relegated to minor Third World nation militaries and insurgents etc. While our current War on Terror has us engaging insurgents, the primary mission of the military is to engage other military forces - few of which use this rifle or cartridge. Even China, a potential adversary in the future, has switched to 5.7mm rifles. Just a thought.
This is basically the same video. It should be noted that this video was made to highlight Project Metropolis which was conducted in 2002 and had more of an anti-terrorism focus than a military operations one.
"The North Little Rock experiment was a peacekeeping scenario with an anti-terrorism flavor, said Maj. Pete Sullivan, a company commander. “It’s a compilation of Somalia, Haiti, the Balkans and Central Asia rolled into one.”
These weapons tests were not a result of later operations in Iraq and the current ones in Afghanistan. Again, interesting video but not necessarily a reflection of current operational issues.
yes this 2nd one is the whole video at 19 minutes it has some other heavy weapons and frags . this is not for military use here it is for all of us to see what to expect in defence or offence in normal construction . and how to build better structure for defence . thanks
Here is something I wrote in early 2005. Flame away.
Thought I would take a minute to jot my thoughts on ballistics before we redeploy. We've been in heavy fighting the last few days.
5.56 works just fine on people, provided you don't have to shoot through anything heavy. Not sure where it got the rep of not working. Expectations too high, most likely. People we shoot with it fall down and die. Very accurate.
The M4 is the perfect size. It is an excellent system, ergonomically. For law enforcement, it is perfect. For military work, with the exception of the cartridge, it is also.
We need to quit trying to optimize performance in tissue, from a military point of view. Do all that you want for cops, hunters, armed citizens but leave us out of it. I just spent the last 10 months in urban combat as an adviser to the Iraqi Army, so I have a few opinions.
Whatever round we get needs to penetrate stuff. And I don't mean dribble out the other side. It needs to blast through cover, then through the dude behind it and preferably the dude behind him. It should, at a minimum, penetrate:
2 mm mild steel
2 inches hard wood
2 car doors with windows down
Trunk, back seat, front seat and dash
2 stacked AK 47 mags with steel cased ammo
AND do all this at minimum 250 meters. If you can get it to do this, it'll flatten people too.
By mid WWII, ALL 30.06 was steel cored armor piercing for this very reason. Nobody who's ever used it has complained about effectiveness. While we're at it, we should go ahead and make it incendiary as well. No point in carrying different types. For the squeamish, it could be formulated to only ignite on hard targets. Personally, I want the guy to burst into flames when I shoot him. By way of example, we were surrounded in a long fight on 4 Feb. We finally got an Browning M2 .50 with a mix of High Explosive and Armor Peircing Incendiary shooting at one of their positions. The .50 pinned them in a cemetery and our M203 gunner pounded them with HE while they were trapped. Mini combined arms fight and we killed a bunch. They have no stomach for API. Might as well give it to everybody. With the proliferation of optics, no need to load tracer. The incendiary compound would provide the burst on target nec essary for correction, without tracing back to you.
Once we have all that, figure out the smallest gun it'll fit in. Trust me: If it works, the troops will carry it. M14s are popular. I'm carring an M203 and use it regularly. If I could figure out how to hang a 203 under an M14, I would.
Should be home in a couple of weeks. Thanks for all the help, prayers, support and emails. We will never be able to tell you what it means.
Excuse the typos and grammar: I was stupid tired when I wrote that.