M14 Forum


Federal American Eagle Brass- Near Worthless?

This is a discussion on Federal American Eagle Brass- Near Worthless? within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; This is more a gripe than anything OK so the weather sucks and has since before Christmas which means all the rifles are spotlessly cleaned ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Ammunition


Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old January 8th, 2010, 04:44 AM   #1
Rest in Peace
 
Visigoth9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 2,142
Federal American Eagle Brass- Near Worthless?

This is more a gripe than anything

OK so the weather sucks and has since before Christmas

which means all the rifles are spotlessly cleaned and lubed

the reloading press is now the remaining option for keeping "Gun Busy"

and I have 1K pieces of Am Eagle .308 brass once fired...

I set up the Small Base die and run 10 test cases...calipers out...the freakin re-sized cases measure 2.027-2.029 OAL

OK so maybe I don't really need the Small Base dies since this brass is scheduled to go into my GI tubes anyway and the chambers can handle Full Lengths...I originally wanted the option to use them in my Rem bolt rifle but... meh

So I set up the FLS die....run 10 more pieces of AmEG brass..calipers....2.024-2.025 OAL...better but still far beyond the 2.015 limit

Now I am pissed...so genius that I am... I decide to measure another fresh box of the once-fired cases before I size them...all came in at 2.020-2.022

I would imagine that Federal set them to 2.015 at initial production,

I know that our rifles stretch brass but what is Federal using for brass? a silly putty alloy? 5 to 7 thou on extraction? these are fired in 1.632 and 1.633 chambers and I know about brass flow during resizing but this is brass deluge

I HATE case trimming

Visigoth9 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 8th, 2010, 06:36 AM   #2
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,338
I may have some numbers on just this. I bought some American Eagle M1A spec ammo. Didn't have time to get to the range yet but I knocked 1 apart to get some load data. The unfired case measures 2.009. The bullet is dimensionally the same as a SMK and weighs exactly 168gr. The powder is cylindrical looks like 4895-4064? and the charge is 42.5 gr. I also have a bunch of once fire American Eagle that I ran through my Springfield Std. and it measures 2.0138. This was the 150 gr. NATO equivalent. * 2.009 should be 2.014 and 2.0138 should be 2.018 see post #4*


Last edited by canman; January 8th, 2010 at 03:45 PM. Reason: wrong data
canman is offline  
Old January 8th, 2010, 06:44 AM   #3
Rest in Peace
 
Visigoth9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 2,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by canman View Post
I may have some numbers on just this. I bought some American Eagle M1A spec ammo. Didn't have time to get to the range yet but I knocked 1 apart to get some load data. The unfired case measures 2.009. The bullet is dimensionally the same as a SMK and weighs exactly 168gr. The powder is extruded looks like 4895-4064? and the charge is 42.5 gr. I also have a bunch of once fire American Eagle that I ran through my Springfield Std. and it measures 2.0138. This was the 150 gr. NATO equivalent.
2.013-2.016 was the sort of stretch I was expecting from a once-fired...that is what I get from once-fired Remington I have used

trimming is one thing...getting out the hacksaw is another

Visigoth9 is offline  
Old January 8th, 2010, 06:48 AM   #4
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,338
My bad I had the wrong sheet, unfired is 2.014 and once fire is 2.018 I was getting ready to edit when you replied.

canman is offline  
Old January 8th, 2010, 07:11 AM   #5
Grunt
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Meadow Vista Ca.
Posts: 98
FAE Brass

I love FAE Brass. Just shot a couple of bxs. last w/end. It reloads just as all brass. They need trimming. I think some softness might just be a little easier on my cutter than Mil. spec. Little less work to get it to length? Or maybe my bias just might be from the fact I purchase factory seconds through employee sales for $4.50 bx.

Laporte is offline  
Old January 9th, 2010, 12:23 AM   #6
FOREVER REMEMBERED
 
markw76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Orygun
Posts: 1,529
I my experience of buying as cheap as I can get milsurp brass, the first sizing/trim is the worst.

markw76 is offline  
Old January 9th, 2010, 08:48 AM   #7
 
Suber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 201
I shot a box of the red American Eagle commercial ammo through my NM and it HATED this crap. The Federal Milsurp in the white box is MUCH better through your rifle.

Suber is offline  
Old January 10th, 2010, 10:28 AM   #8
Scout Sniper
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 779
Thumbs down Federal Brass ?

Visigoth9,
First, I'll relate a little anecdote about my personal experience with Federal brass. One of my local dealers was running an ammo sale around the turn of the milennium. I noticed that he had a quantity of Federal Gold Medal Match ammo in three of my favorite flavors, .223, .308, and .300 Win. Mag. Because of the low price I bought 10 boxes of each, the .223 in their 69gr. SMK loading, the .308 in their 168gr. SMK loading, and the .300WM in their 190gr. SMK version with the idea of getting some accurate ammo to practice with at the range plus having some supposed high quality brass to reload.

All was well, the ammo grouped (in all three varities) not quite as good as my handloads ( LC and Winchester brass) but it worked. So I began to work up some loads with my now once-fired Fed. GMM brass and this is where the fun began. Any loads that I worked up that would even approach (in velocity) my standard working loads in all three of these cartridges would seriously stretch this Fed. brass and enlarge the primer pockets enough to make the brass useless for further reloading. I took all the accepted handloading precautions when working up these loads, but all to no avail. The brass was junk.

Then, some time after this fiasco I happened to be corresponding with Lt. Col. Dave Liwanag (aka 'sinister') who at the time was the OIC of the US AMU. He mentioned that the AMU had recently thrown out "a Dumpster load" of Fed. GMM once fired brass in .223 and what crap it was. It turned out that the AMU contracted for a large purchase of Fed. GMM .223 ammo in their 77gr. SMK loading for their Service Rifle team with the intent of using it for the 200 and 300 yard events and then reloading the spent cases with their own 80gr. recipe for the 600 yard portion of the match. They experienced the same results as I did! After having the brass tested, it turned out that it was very soft. When he called Federal about the problem their position was that they (Federal) did not manufacture their ammo with the intent of having the cases reloaded and something like "if you'll notice, we do not sell empty brass to handloaders either".

Since I've reloaded a whole bunch of LC cases manufactured by Federal (ATK) to USGI specs. with no such problems I'll have to believe that Federal is fully capable of making high quality reloadable brass but deliberately chooses to manufacture its civilian cartridge lineup with soft cases.

I realize that this is merely anecdotal, but thought it would make an interesting read.

Sherlock308 is offline  
Old January 10th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #9
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,338
That makes sense. When they are providing components to the Government they have to meet those standards. They can do it,just when it's their call they do it their way. Good information.

canman is offline  
Old January 10th, 2010, 01:36 PM   #10
Old Salt
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bucks County, PA. USA
Posts: 1,095
RE: Federal ammo

Greetings,

Where would the Federal white box be found? Thanks!

Regards, Jim

jim-analog is offline  
Old January 10th, 2010, 05:22 PM   #11
FOREVER REMEMBERED
 
markw76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Orygun
Posts: 1,529
Quote:
"if you'll notice, we do not sell empty brass to handloaders either".
If it's that soft on the first firing, IMO it provides less protection in the case of a KB.

Nice frickin' attitude.

markw76 is offline  
Old January 10th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IN, USA
Posts: 3
I've reloaded FGMM .308 brass in the past for my bolt gun, however I'm just getting ready to start reloading for M14/M1A's. Federal is known to be some of the softest brass out there. While it is a little heavier than Winchester brass, it's so soft that you'll often see the primer pockets getting loose if you run fairly hot loads. I'll use it in a pinch for a bolt gun but not for more than 3 or so loadings, or for subsonic loads if I just want to mess around. I really can't imagine it holding up well in a M14/M1A though. I plan on only using military LC or WCC for my SEI build.

QuietShooter762 is offline  
Old January 11th, 2010, 07:57 PM   #13
NSR
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 210
Gents,

Times are hard...and expensive. I doubt that I'd throw out a truck load of Federal brass for being "soft". I'd use it in my bolt guns, instead.

Next time I contact Dave Liwinag I'll have to ask him to ship me the floor "sweepings"...

Our issue load has been 55 gr. Fed Amer. Eagle .223 and I picked up a bunch of once fired brass. Being a Rangemaster does have it's prividges...
Although I didn't test it the brass did seem "soft" when resized and trimmed. It shoots OK in my AR's and my bolt gun LOVES the stuff. I'm getting .3-.4 groups using it, Federal 205M primers, 24.4 gr. N-140, and a 69 gr. SMK.

There is better brass out there, but I'll be damned if I'd put Lapua through a gas gun!

Luckily, all my .308 brass is either commercial or LC Match. The down side is that I may have to get more when my M14SA gets here.

I hate trimming brass, too. A Gracey trimmer helps.

Wes

weshowe is offline  
Old January 11th, 2010, 11:28 PM   #14
Rest in Peace
 
Visigoth9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 2,142
My wife shoulder-surfed me watching a you-tube demo of the Giraud, I was sobbing with joy at its very invention...

she asked what it was....

I told her it was something that would get me out of the basement at least 20 or more man-days a year

She told me to get one...

I told her when I die she can sell off everything

but I want that tool buried with me

in the grand tradition of the Pharaoh's entombed with their most beloved things

Visigoth9 is offline  
Old January 12th, 2010, 08:25 AM   #15
Platoon Commander
 
hagar the horrible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by weshowe View Post
Gents,

Times are hard...and expensive. I doubt that I'd throw out a truck load of Federal brass for being "soft". I'd use it in my bolt guns, instead.

Next time I contact Dave Liwinag I'll have to ask him to ship me the floor "sweepings"...



Wes
I still have about 150 or so 308 Federal cases Dave Linawag gave me in 2004 when I was shooting on the same line as him in the Orange Blossom!

hagar the horrible is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Ammunition



Search tags for this page
american eagle
,
american eagle 308 brass
,

american eagle brass

,
american eagle brass reloadable
,
brass american eagle
,

can you reload american eagle brass

,
federal american eagle brass reloading
,
fgmm sucks
,

is american eagle brass reloadable

,
is federal american eagle brass reloading
,
m1a reloading federal cases
,
reloading american eagle brass
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
American Eagle Federal ammo CountrySmoke Ammunition 16 July 28th, 2011 07:25 AM
Brass Cleaning m1a shooter Ammunition 9 November 15th, 2009 08:08 AM
My process of once fired brass edward5759 Ammunition 4 September 14th, 2009 08:01 PM
Federal brass Dry Fork Ammunition 7 July 25th, 2006 06:04 AM
USGI Issue M-14 Sparky The M14 15 November 29th, 2005 01:23 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List