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M118LR duplication load

This is a discussion on M118LR duplication load within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I've searched the forum but have been unable to find a M118LR duplication load. My local range won't allow a chrono, so I need some ...


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Old December 24th, 2009, 10:22 AM   #1
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M118LR duplication load

I've searched the forum but have been unable to find a M118LR duplication load. My local range won't allow a chrono, so I need some help here.

Here are the components that I have on hand:

LC cases - small base sized, trimmed, primer pockets swaged and uniformed
CCI 34 primers
SMK 175

I have a 8# jug of IMR4895 and was thinking of picking up some 4064.

The Sierra manual lists 41.5 gr of IMR4895 as max. This is my normal load for the above components and the SMK 168. It also lists 42.8 gr of 4064 as max. These loads were worked up using Federal cases.

What loads have you developed using these components in your M1A?

Thanks, Cold

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Old December 24th, 2009, 10:34 AM   #2
 
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I am getting set up to do some .308 and I am going to use the same stuff you cite, but with 4064. My plan is to start, as always 4-5 tenths of a grain less than the max load data for any given source. I am not at all worried about the LC Brass, but I think it is prudent. If my rifle short strokes, which I doubt, bump it up slightly.

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Old December 24th, 2009, 10:38 AM   #3
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I don't know if this load exactly duplicates the M118LR round but 42.3g IMR-4064 under the 175g SMK, with the CCI BR-2 primer, is a reall X ring hammer in my NM M1A. It will consistently hold the X ring at 600 when I do my part.

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Old December 24th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #4
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On the use of IMR4895 with CCI#34 primers, the way I understand it, CCI#34 primers are equal to magnum primers and are a little hot for 4895 powder. Maybe someone else can chime in as I have seen this posted more than a few times on the internet.

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Old December 24th, 2009, 06:57 PM   #5
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I like IMR-4895 with the 168 grain bullets and IMR-4064 with the 175 grain bullets. I'm not sure about Sierra's data. Sierra has a max of 41.3 grains of IMR-4895 with the 168 grain SMK and 41.5 grains of IMR-4895 with the 175 grain SMK. Sierra's data really isn't meant for service rifles anyway.

M118 LR uses a slightly different case than other LC cases. The case web is a thicker but the case is a bit thinner in other areas which is suppose increase powder capacity a bit but the thicker web makes the cases about the same weight as standard LC cases. The difference isn't much though.

M118 LR is loaded to a slightly higher pressure limit and is meant for use in a special shaped barrel chamber (and special gas system). it is loaded hot and trying to get the same velocity will result some pretty hot handloads.

The M118 LR primer is the M43 or #43 (not a typo). This is not the M34 (#34) primer. The M43 primer is described as a "match" primer. The Federal 210M match primer may be closer to it but is a more sensitive primer than the #34. If you value your rifle and it's parts you may not want to push the limits all the way to the M118 LR cartridge.

The US Navy has recently ordered a special version of the M118 LR for increased accuracy and reduced muzzle flash. Some people suggest this load may be 40.2 grains of IMR-3031 with the 175 grain SMK loaded to 2.81". That's still going to be a fairly hot load.

See the attachment. It has IMR-4895 and IMR-4064 pressure and velocity data. It includes the original M118 (not M118 LR) which shows higher pressure than the recommended handloads.Oddly it also shows a slightly higher charge of IMR-4064 with the 180 grain SMK than the M118 bullet. The IMR-3031 loads are way down in charge weight. The data was worked up in a 'test barrel" and I suspect it had a minimum SAAMI 308 Winchester chamber.
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Thanks from budster
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Old December 24th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #6
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coldshot,

I use 41.0gr of IMR4895 in a LC M118LR case with both the 174gr M118 FMJBT bullets and the 175SMK's. Good Luck.

Don

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Old December 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYShooter View Post
I don't know if this load exactly duplicates the M118LR round but 42.3g IMR-4064 under the 175g SMK, with the CCI BR-2 primer, is a reall X ring hammer in my NM M1A. It will consistently hold the X ring at 600 when I do my part.
Coldshot,
I currently use nearly the same load as KYshooter: LC 1977 match case, CCI BR2 primer, SMK 175 42.2 grns of 4064

This load comes out 2630-2640 fps, out of my 5R barrel. In my other M14, with a Kreiger barrel, it comes out about 2600fps. Both rifles shoot it very well - 195-6X/200 at 600 yds and 147- 6X/150 at 800yds.


Last edited by jameydan; December 25th, 2009 at 07:40 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #8
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Might want to think about RL15

Coldshot,
Although you mention 4895 and 4064, another powder to consider is RL15. I used to use it, and only stopped as I had a bunch of 4064 on hand. Now that i have used both powders for a few years of highpower, I can say that the RL15 is a cleaner burning powder than the IMR 4064. I used to hardly get any carbon out of the gas piston. Now, do not get me wrong, the 4064 is not dirty at all, the RL15 was just cleaner.

Here is some info (FWIW) I found once upon a time when looking for loading info on the 175SMK:

"M118LR was originally set to chrono at 2680 fps out of a 24-inch barrel to stay supersonic from a 22-inch M14 to 1,000 yards.

The Marines complained that the 175's trajectory no longer jibed with the Ballistic Drop Compensation markings on their legacy Unertl 10X telescopes and asked Lake City to download the cartridge. It now nominally chronos at 2550 out of a 24-inch barrel (mimicking the track of 168-grain M852).

In my experience a 175 will be transitional at 1,000 if fired from an M14 at Perry in August with an MV around 2550.

The faster mix provided the best accuracy.
The original load was posted on Alliants web site just after they got the contract to supply RL15. It was 44.3gr. There was a caveat that it was about 1.5gr over charge. It was taken off the web site within 2 months.

It was downloaded to 43.1gr after the problems with the M14's - too high a pressure in the temperatures encountered in Iraq."

I used to use Winchester cases, 44.0 of RL15, CCIBR2 and 175SMK. It was as good as my other 4064 loads. (The Winchester cases have more volume, so more powder is need to get to the 2600fps, compared to military cases.)

HTH,
Jamey

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Old December 25th, 2009, 09:55 PM   #9
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Why try to duplicate the load?

A better use of your time would be to find that load or loads which will function flawlessly, give you the accuracy you want, with components you can acquire.
I use 41gr of IMR4895 for both 168 and 175gr Sierra Match Kings. My rifle likes it, it shoots submoa for me if I do my part and it is easy for me to remember.

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Old December 26th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #10
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I did alot of research on this subject a while back. Even posted a thread about it on here: http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=74045


I don't have a chrony, and I don't do all the crazy caliper measurements very much. But I've used the following in my rem 700 sps tactical successfully:

41.3 IMR 4895
LC case
WLR primer
175smk (seated to appx 2.83 coal, no match/precision dies yet)


RL-15, according to what I've read, is the actual powder they use in m118lr loads which is why I'm trying to get a hold of some soon. If you go to the snipershide.com forums and search for m118lr, you'll find some interesting threads that discuss this. You kind of just have to sift thru the bs as with most reloading threads with guys posting all their personal loads all over the place like we are here :)

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Old December 26th, 2009, 07:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper51 View Post
A better use of your time would be to find that load or loads which will function flawlessly, give you the accuracy you want, with components you can acquire.
I use 41gr of IMR4895 for both 168 and 175gr Sierra Match Kings. My rifle likes it, it shoots submoa for me if I do my part and it is easy for me to remember.
+1
usually in the 06 and 308 family I like to use IMR4064
and my starting loads (.308) are right at 40-41 grains with the rifle settling in at 42. +/- .5 grs using LC cases with Swampy's 175 VLDs. (my standard go to load is 41.8grs).
The reduced capacity (thicker brass construction within all LC cases) will drive the bullet faster with less powder thus increasing chamber pressure. I have loaded with RL15 and it is a good powder, but with a surplus of 4064 well you can figure out why I use it another plus is it is the fastest powder one should use for the M1 Garand's gas system.

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Old December 28th, 2009, 07:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR View Post
coldshot,

I use 41.0gr of IMR4895 in a LC M118LR case with both the 174gr M118 FMJBT bullets and the 175SMK's. Good Luck.

Don
I use 41.1 gr IMR-4895 with CCI34 primer in a LC case with 175 SMK. Bump up the charge to 41.3 gr for the 168 Nolser CC BTHP. I seat to 2.82" OAL.

These pills are straight money in my NM rifles. Right at 1 MOA as apperent from a 192-10X score at the 600 yard line (175 SMK).

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Old December 29th, 2009, 09:49 AM   #13
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Post M118LR load

Do a Google search for TM 43-0001-27, Army Ammunition Data sheets. Page 11-23 has the data for M118LR. 44gr of WC750, 175gr bullet, 52,000 PSI, 2640fps. Does not list the primer type.

HTH

Bill

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Old December 29th, 2009, 10:20 AM   #14
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Gunny33-

I did a google search and the newest version of TM 43-0001-27 I was able to find was april 1994 and only includes the M118 special ball load. Were you able to find a newer version of TM 43-0001-27 that includes the M118LR?

Thanks

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Old December 29th, 2009, 10:35 AM   #15
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I've had great results with Varget in my long range loads. It meters well and has a similar burn rate to IMR-4895. In side by side tests it shows a smaller standard deviation in velocity, but only slightly.

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