Tz - 80 - Page 4 - M14 Forum

M14 Forum


Tz - 80

This is a discussion on Tz - 80 within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Just got back from firing 20 rounds of each of my three dated lots of TZ-80. Also fired a box of Winchester White Box for ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Ammunition

5Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old January 3rd, 2010, 01:40 PM   #46
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Reno
Posts: 22
Just got back from firing 20 rounds of each of my three dated lots of TZ-80.

Also fired a box of Winchester White Box for comparison.

The TZ-80 had slightly more base expansion than the WW.

TZ-80.5730 consistently +/- a 1/10,000ths.
WW .5726 consistently.

The consistency of the the TZ-80 definitely doesn't bother me. I've never considered the WW "Hot" so it also doesn't suprise me that the TZ has more base expansion. I didn't get a chance to Chrony any of the rounds today, but will in the next week or two. I also plan on cutting a few cases up to look for any weakness. I am really less worried than before but I would really like to hear from people that have witnessed case failure, what the condition of the ammo was, where and when it was purchased, packaging, rifle it was fired from, etc...

I don't think I will be reloading this brass a bunch of times, although I may test 20 or so and see what the life span is. More to follow.

GP

gpgofast is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 3rd, 2010, 08:06 PM   #47
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ga
Posts: 21
thanks for the info. makes me feel a little bit better about my little stash of 3-80. i plan on taking a box or two out with me next time i go to the range. i too will report back.

mattellis2 is offline  
Old January 9th, 2010, 08:42 PM   #48
Designated Marksman
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: TN
Posts: 551
Well, that's just great. Had a dealer at the Nashville show trade me out a 500 round case of Brown Bear 7.62x39 for (2) 100-round bags of mixed year TZ headstamped .308 ammo and $20. Now I am finding out this stuff is appearantly dangerous to shoot in either my M1A or my StG-58 FAL...

Did I just get totally screwed, or are the bullets themselves at least worth salvaging to reload in some other .308 brass? This stuff, being in loose bags, might have been some of the tumbled stuff (it looks OK, but who knows?) so the powder I suppose is suspect too. Damnittohell... I know the 500-round cases of Brown Bear were on sale for $109 a couple of weeks ago, so now I guess I have $90 in 200 bullets instead of 200 rounds.

I saw where the TZ 80 and TZ 87 were bad; what about other years of TZ?

PvtJoker is offline  
 
Old January 9th, 2010, 10:25 PM   #49
Banned Camp
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 336
2K rounds way back also

20 rd grey boxes,,no problems with shooting or brass for reloading,,very accurate,med. dirty ,,still shooting with about
600 rds left,,it was also listed as Match ammo

E4for2 is offline  
Old January 11th, 2010, 12:19 PM   #50
Designated Marksman
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: TN
Posts: 551
Well, things turned out OK in the end. Saw the dealer the next day at the show and told him what I found out about the 1980s TZ ammo. So he traded me out for some Malaysian berdan primed instead. Not reloadable, but at least it shouldn't blow up my rifle like the Israeli mess might have. Thanks for keeping this up as a sticky; might have saved me a really poor ending to a otherwise fun day of shooting if I hadn't known.

PvtJoker is offline  
Old January 13th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #51
Old Salt
 
mack7.62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by boss View Post
Hey mack was your ammo in boxes or loose packed?
Twenty round gray boxes with white lables, also the cans had the stryofoam inserts and lead seals for what its worth.

mack7.62 is offline  
Old May 3rd, 2010, 07:49 PM   #52
Grunt
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 117
My TZ 8-80

I have over 2k of TZ 8-80. I have shot 700 rnds. it has worked fine in my socom, as well as my loaded M1A. All mine was in ammo cans 500 per can styrofoam insert on the top of can.
No signs of any problems.

casey762 is offline  
Old June 5th, 2010, 11:46 AM   #53
Snappin In
 
willy7586's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 23
tz 8-80

I just bought 400 rounds marked tz 8-80 in gray sealed cardboard boxes of 20 rds each. Paid $160. Sounded like a good deal until I just found this thread. Should I shoot this stuff or dispose of it? I do not reload so the components or no good to me

willy7586 is offline  
Old June 5th, 2010, 12:02 PM   #54
Dodgin' The Reaper
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 5,679
Is it ball from the same lot? Do you have a bolt-action .308 rifle you can test-shoot it with? Look closely at the base area and primers of your fired cases and satisfy yourself the ammo's sound before you fire it in your gas gun.

bd111 is offline  
Old June 5th, 2010, 12:58 PM   #55
Snappin In
 
willy7586's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 23
tz 8-80

No, I do not have a bolt gun. I have ordered a SAI M1A loaded and thought I would start buying up ammo so when it comes in I'll be ready for some range time. Now I'm concerned about this ammo.

willy7586 is offline  
Old June 12th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #56
Rifleman
 
GySgt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 47
This is my experience shooting TZ 80/81 ammo, I bought mine on line to shoot it using one of my two M1919A4 brownings MG's, this one is converted to shoot 7.62X51, I loaded several belts and took my son for an afternoon of shooting, we suffered several FTF, the primer impact from a browning is hard but no ignition, after loading another round, my son got a few grey hairs when the weapon blew up, the top cover latch flew open and was badly warped, the browining is open on the bottom and most of the gas escaped from there sandblasting the OD paint from the tripod, upon examination of the case, what was left of it, it was case separation, for those of you familiar with this weapon, yes, I did check the headspace and it was set for that type of ammo, now I have a can of useless ammo, not to be trusted, below are pictures of the MG top cover, I attempted to straighten it but it split on the side, it has been replaced with another. the internal parts in the top cover were not damaged, they were salvaged and installed on the replacement top cover
Semper Fi

inside view of the top cover


Side view

GySgt is offline  
Old August 29th, 2010, 10:27 AM   #57
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 22
Israeli head stamps TZ, etc...

Okay guys, I need some help if anyone can chime in through their own experience and what they know to be true. I have about 700 rounds of military surplus 7.62 x 51 of what I think (or appears to be) Israeli manufacture.

I have read this entire thread with all the posts from you all. I looked at each headstamp of all the 700 rounds I have of this Israeli made ammo and out of all the rounds I have discovered about 20-30 rounds with the headstamp "TZ 80" and have appropriately set them aside for pull down. Within those 20-30 rounds I have also set aside some headstamps with TZ 81, 82, 83, 85, and 87. There are only a 1 or 2 of each of these. It seems that the "80" is the one to look for that doesn't have a good reputation.

However, within the mix of these 700 rounds there are several different and various headstamps.

L5A3 K 69 (with NATO cross)
FNM 11-80 (w/NATO cross)
FN 75 (w/NATO cross)
U K 3-74 (NO NATO cross, I have numerous rounds with differing dates and even found a handfull with SILVER colored primers)
SF 78 (w/NATO cross)
SB 77 7.62 x 51 (NO NATO cross)

I understand the numbers on these rounds indicate the year the cartridge was manufactured, but does anyone else know what some of these SF, SB, U K, FN, FNM.....letters indicate??? and if you have any familiararity with them or shooting them. (???)

ALSO, some of these cartridges have TWO cannulers (spelling?) around the projectile----one is where the casing mouth is crimped around the projectile and the second one is about an 1/8" above the top of the case/case mouth (above the first cannule as first described). What does the TWO cannulers indicate---TRACER or AP or can someone enlighten me on the dual cannulers please. Thanks in advance

MTU1980 is offline  
Old August 29th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #58
M14 Forum Admin
 
XXIV Corps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
Posts: 12,769

Awards Showcase

Research, still the only game in town......

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTU1980 View Post
I have read this entire thread with all the posts from you all. I looked at each headstamp of all the 700 rounds I have of this Israeli made ammo and out of all the rounds I have discovered about 20-30 rounds with the headstamp "TZ 80" and have appropriately set them aside for pull down. Within those 20-30 rounds I have also set aside some headstamps with TZ 81, 82, 83, 85, and 87. There are only a 1 or 2 of each of these. It seems that the "80" is the one to look for that doesn't have a good reputation.

However, within the mix of these 700 rounds there are several different and various headstamps.

L5A3 K 69 (with NATO cross) "Probably Lithuanian or England, my money is on Engand"
FNM 11-80 (w/NATO cross) "Portuguese"
FN 75 (w/NATO cross) "Belgium"
U K 3-74 (NO NATO cross, I have numerous rounds with differing dates and even found a handfull with SILVER colored primers) "England?"
SF 78 (w/NATO cross) "France"
SB 77 7.62 x 51 (NO NATO cross) "Spain (Santa Barbra)"

I understand the numbers on these rounds indicate the year the cartridge was manufactured, but does anyone else know what some of these SF, SB, U K, FN, FNM.....letters indicate??? and if you have any familiararity with them or shooting them. (???)

ALSO, some of these cartridges have TWO cannulers (spelling?) around the projectile----one is where the casing mouth is crimped around the projectile and the second one is about an 1/8" above the top of the case/case mouth (above the first cannule as first described). What does the TWO cannulers indicate---TRACER or AP or can someone enlighten me on the dual cannulers please. Thanks in advance
Welcome on board MTU1980, great site here with a whole lot od info to look through searchs... good luck



For accurate military surplus ammunition see below.

For Cost see this Sticky...

For list of ones tested see this Sticky.

1, M118LR Lake City from 2003. Top score of 200-13X, on a SR-1 NRA standard 100 yard target, 1-20 round mag only with my NM M1A.
2. M118SB Lake City from 1963, 200-10X.
3, Radway Green surplus from 1990, 200-10X.
4, M118SB Lake City from 1985, a 199-12X.
5, Australian MF surplus from 1966, 199-10X.
6, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1979, a 199-10X.
7, M852 Lake City from 1985, 198-13X.
8, Radway Green surplus from 1985, 198-12X.
9, Belgium surplus from 1977, 198-10X.
10, Radway Green surplus from 1995, 198-8X
11, South African surplus from 1980, 198-6X.
12, Santa Barbra surplus from 1980, 197-14X.
13, Argentine surplus from 1983, 197-8X.
14, German DAG, surplus from 1976, 197-8X.
15, Austria surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
16, Greek surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
17, German MEN 41, surplus from 1969, 197-6X.
18, Singapore surplus from 1986, 196-11X.
19, Israeli surplus from 1974, 196-10X.
20, Australian ADI surplus from 1988, 196-8X.
21, Bosnian M118 surplus from 2003, 196-8X.
22, Yugoslavia surplus from 2002, 196-6X.
23, Malaysian surplus from 1982, 195-6X.
24, Malaysian surplus from 1983, 194-9X.
25, Lithuanian surplus from 2003, 194-6X.
26, Yugoslavia surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
27, Venezuelan surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
28, Denmark, surplus from 1993, 193-2X.
29, Canadian, surplus from 1970, 192-8X.
30, Chilean, surplus from 1976, 191-4X.
31, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1978, 190-4X.
32, Austria surplus from 1978, 190-3X.
33, South African surplus from 1981, 189-1X.
34, Pakistan military surplus from 1979. Score of 188-4X.
35, Indonesian surplus from 1985, 187-1X.

XXIV Corps is offline  
Old November 12th, 2010, 11:06 PM   #59
Squad Leader
 
Bolt2bounce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: West coast
Posts: 279
The problem with the izzy ammo is improper storage in the desert heat.. and or exposure to chemicals, that weakens the brass..Paragon also tumbled this ammo and broken down some powders enough to increasing the burning rate and increasing pressure. This can happen to any ammo.. Milsurplus is just that surplussed for a reason usually for age or defects in primers powder or brass...I've shot thousands of rounds of this ammo through M-14 and other rifles and yes I've had some cases split, but I never blew a rifle up...the problem is brass related.. It's hit or miss as far as what ammo is bad or not.. the secondary canlure bullet is a tracer.. 1919 topcovers can be blown with a case separation. I've done it with 8mm yougo, same thing happened..bottom line is any ammo can damage a firearm..the older the ammo is the more likely..it is a problem.. b2b

Bolt2bounce is offline  
Old February 24th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #60
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 28
I shot probably 500 rounds through an M1a of the TZ 80 ammo and found that it corroded the outside of my barrel adjacent to the gas port. It did not bother the inside of the barrel because I've always made it a point to thoroughly clean the barrel after shooting. I had a chrome moly barrel on the rifle.

thecarkid is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Ammunition


Search tags for this page
308 fc brass headseperation
,
7.62mm ball 11-80
,
mail sbenterprisestz.com
,
mail sbenterprisestz.com loc:us
,
reloading tz80 cases
,
tz 80
,
tz 80 .308 ammo
,

tz 80 ammo

,
tz 80 headstamp
,
tz80
,
what is tz located on bottom of 7.62x51 ammo ?
,
x tz
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Moderator Tools
Display Modes




Top Gun Sites Top Sites List