M14 Forum

bd111

Is it ball from the same lot? Do you have a bolt-action .308 rifle you can test-shoot it with? Look closely at the base area and primers of your fired cases and satisfy yourself the ammo's sound before you fire it in your gas gun.

willy7586

No, I do not have a bolt gun. I have ordered a SAI M1A loaded and thought I would start buying up ammo so when it comes in I'll be ready for some range time. Now I'm concerned about this ammo.

GySgt

This is my experience shooting TZ 80/81 ammo, I bought mine on line to shoot it using one of my two M1919A4 brownings MG's, this one is converted to shoot 7.62X51, I loaded several belts and took my son for an afternoon of shooting, we suffered several FTF, the primer impact from a browning is hard but no ignition, after loading another round, my son got a few grey hairs when the weapon blew up, the top cover latch flew open and was badly warped, the browining is open on the bottom and most of the gas escaped from there sandblasting the OD paint from the tripod, upon examination of the case, what was left of it, it was case separation, for those of you familiar with this weapon, yes, I did check the headspace and it was set for that type of ammo, now I have a can of useless ammo, not to be trusted, below are pictures of the MG top cover, I attempted to straighten it but it split on the side, it has been replaced with another. the internal parts in the top cover were not damaged, they were salvaged and installed on the replacement top cover
Semper Fi

inside view of the top cover


Side view

MTU1980

Okay guys, I need some help if anyone can chime in through their own experience and what they know to be true. I have about 700 rounds of military surplus 7.62 x 51 of what I think (or appears to be) Israeli manufacture.

I have read this entire thread with all the posts from you all. I looked at each headstamp of all the 700 rounds I have of this Israeli made ammo and out of all the rounds I have discovered about 20-30 rounds with the headstamp "TZ 80" and have appropriately set them aside for pull down. Within those 20-30 rounds I have also set aside some headstamps with TZ 81, 82, 83, 85, and 87. There are only a 1 or 2 of each of these. It seems that the "80" is the one to look for that doesn't have a good reputation.

However, within the mix of these 700 rounds there are several different and various headstamps.

L5A3 K 69 (with NATO cross)
FNM 11-80 (w/NATO cross)
FN 75 (w/NATO cross)
U K 3-74 (NO NATO cross, I have numerous rounds with differing dates and even found a handfull with SILVER colored primers)
SF 78 (w/NATO cross)
SB 77 7.62 x 51 (NO NATO cross)

I understand the numbers on these rounds indicate the year the cartridge was manufactured, but does anyone else know what some of these SF, SB, U K, FN, FNM.....letters indicate??? and if you have any familiararity with them or shooting them. (???)

ALSO, some of these cartridges have TWO cannulers (spelling?) around the projectile----one is where the casing mouth is crimped around the projectile and the second one is about an 1/8" above the top of the case/case mouth (above the first cannule as first described). What does the TWO cannulers indicate---TRACER or AP or can someone enlighten me on the dual cannulers please. Thanks in advance

XXIV Corps

Welcome on board MTU1980, great site here with a whole lot od info to look through searchs... good luck



For accurate military surplus ammunition see below.

For Cost see this Sticky...

For list of ones tested see this Sticky.

1, M118LR Lake City from 2003. Top score of 200-13X, on a SR-1 NRA standard 100 yard target, 1-20 round mag only with my NM M1A.
2. M118SB Lake City from 1963, 200-10X.
3, Radway Green surplus from 1990, 200-10X.
4, M118SB Lake City from 1985, a 199-12X.
5, Australian MF surplus from 1966, 199-10X.

6, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1979, a 199-10X.

7, M852 Lake City from 1985, 198-13X.
8, Radway Green surplus from 1985, 198-12X.
9, Belgium surplus from 1977, 198-10X.
10, Radway Green surplus from 1995, 198-8X
11, South African surplus from 1980, 198-6X.
12, Santa Barbra surplus from 1980, 197-14X.
13, Argentine surplus from 1983, 197-8X.
14, German DAG, surplus from 1976, 197-8X.
15, Austria surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
16, Greek surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
17, German MEN 41, surplus from 1969, 197-6X.
18, Singapore surplus from 1986, 196-11X.
19, Israeli surplus from 1974, 196-10X.
20, Australian ADI surplus from 1988, 196-8X.
21, Bosnian M118 surplus from 2003, 196-8X.
22, Yugoslavia surplus from 2002, 196-6X.
23, Malaysian surplus from 1982, 195-6X.
24, Malaysian surplus from 1983, 194-9X.
25, Lithuanian surplus from 2003, 194-6X.
26, Yugoslavia surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
27, Venezuelan surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
28, Denmark, surplus from 1993, 193-2X.
29, Canadian, surplus from 1970, 192-8X.
30, Chilean, surplus from 1976, 191-4X.
31, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1978, 190-4X.
32, Austria surplus from 1978, 190-3X.
33, South African surplus from 1981, 189-1X.
34, Pakistan military surplus from 1979. Score of 188-4X.
35, Indonesian surplus from 1985, 187-1X.

Bolt2bounce

The problem with the izzy ammo is improper storage in the desert heat.. and or exposure to chemicals, that weakens the brass..Paragon also tumbled this ammo and broken down some powders enough to increasing the burning rate and increasing pressure. This can happen to any ammo.. Milsurplus is just that surplussed for a reason usually for age or defects in primers powder or brass...I've shot thousands of rounds of this ammo through M-14 and other rifles and yes I've had some cases split, but I never blew a rifle up...the problem is brass related.. It's hit or miss as far as what ammo is bad or not.. the secondary canlure bullet is a tracer.. 1919 topcovers can be blown with a case separation. I've done it with 8mm yougo, same thing happened..bottom line is any ammo can damage a firearm..the older the ammo is the more likely..it is a problem.. b2b

thecarkid

I shot probably 500 rounds through an M1a of the TZ 80 ammo and found that it corroded the outside of my barrel adjacent to the gas port. It did not bother the inside of the barrel because I've always made it a point to thoroughly clean the barrel after shooting. I had a chrome moly barrel on the rifle.

Hyperion

Because of the concerns regarding TZ 80 ammo on this site and others, I avoided running a 500-round can through my M1A.

The ammo I had was packed into cardboard boxes and shipped in a .50 can with a fairly thick styrofoam insert on top. It was good looking ammo with no apparent flaws. Nevertheless, I was sufficiently spooked and linked all 500 rounds and ran them through a 1919. No problems whatsoever!

phantomguy

Realize this is an old thread but saw the 'TZ' reference. I've shot TZZ and TZ (79) without a glitch in both my M1A's. Pulled a few apart to check loads and bullet weights. Yeah, not the best qa at the factory and not match grade, but all shot well without any case problems. I like them to the point of keeping them for SHTF.