M14 Forum banner

Surplus vs. expensive ammo

4K views 32 replies 23 participants last post by  Lefty Guns 
#1 ·
hey guys,

Ok, so it is my understanding that surplus ammo is dirtier, and less acurate. But the trade off is being much cheaper.

I plan to buy a springfield socom (haven't decided on the socom 2, or 16 completely yet) mid to late september of this year. I am trying to figure out weather I should brace myself for the shock of having to pay $31 a box for hornady tap, like was suggested, that I should run through it, by the springfield armory customer service rep, that i spoke with over the phone. When I asked her if it was ok to run surplus ammo she said "but why would you want to?"

I am sure she was just reading most of that Info from her screen, so I came to ask some people with real experience.

Is surplus ammo going to get certain places in my rifle dirty that other ammo wouldn't? Is it going to make certain parts extremely hard to clean? Is there really any thing other than minor acuracy variances that I should know about shooting surplus ammo?

I have an AK clone (wasr-10) and I have no problem shooting surplus through it, all day. I just want to know since I'm stepping up to a pretty decent rifle now, should I just go ahead and plan on needing to use some nicer ammo.

To sum up this long post..
Springfield Socom - hornady tap or surplus?
Obviously if the answer is surplus, I'll keep plenty of the good stuff on hand, in case it's ever called for. Or is there maybe a middleground ammo that i could stock up on for both?

thanks again guys,
-steve
 
See less See more
#3 ·
I am trying to figure out weather I should brace myself for the shock of having to pay $31 a box for hornady tap, like was suggested, that I should run through it, by the springfield armory customer service rep, that i spoke with over the phone. When I asked her if it was ok to run surplus ammo she said "but why would you want to?"
She must own stock in Hornady. GI2
 
#4 ·
IMHO....I have not seen any corrosive surplus ammo out there for sale for quite some time and with the quality of some of the surplus ammo that is out there now IMHO...I would not and do not hesitate to buy and shoot surplus ammo. IMHO about dirtiest out there right now would be the Pakistani stuff( I shoot the daylites out of it) stay away from Indian(bad juju) everything out there besides that IMHO is OK ammo. If you want to spend the money on TAP you can that is your decision. I also shoot South African and Portuguese without complaints or issues. There is also some fairly good stuff coming from eastern Europe that is for sale out there. You could buy a small quantity of both, try it then make your decision.
 
#5 ·
Research, still the best game in town......

I like to shot older military surplus ammunition over most comm. ammunitions Lefty Guns, below are my best scores with older military surplus ammunitions over the last few years and it's not that dirty at all, or any less accurate at all, I still clean my rifle after each visit to the rifle range anywayDI5 ... Just enjoy what you end up picking.

"Ok, so it is my understanding that surplus ammo is dirtier, and less acurate. But the trade off is being much cheaper."

1, M118LR Lake City from 2003. Top score of 200-13X, on a SR-1 NRA standard 100 yard target, 1-20 round mag only with my NM M1A.
2, M118SB Lake City from 1985, a 199-12X.
3, Australian MF surplus from 1966, 199-10X.
4, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1979, a 199-10X.
5, M852 Lake City from 1985, 198-13X.
6, Radway Green surplus from 1985, 198-9X.
7, South African surplus from 1980, 198-6X.
8, Santa Barbra surplus from 1980, 197-14X.
9, Argentine surplus from 1983, 197-8X.
10, Austria surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
11, Greek surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
12, German DM 41, surplus from 1960, 197-6X.
13, Singapore surplus from 1986, 196-11X.
14, Australian ADI surplus from 1988, 196-8X.
15, Radway Green surplus from 1990, 196-8X.
16, Yugoslavia surplus from 2002, 196-6X.
17, Malaysian surplus from 1983, 194-9X.
18, Lithuanian surplus from 2003, 194-6X.
19, Yugoslavia surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
20, Venezuelan surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
21, Denmark, surplus from 1993, 193-2X.
22, Chilean, surplus from 1976, 191-4X.
23, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1978, 190-4X.
24, Austria surplus from 1978, 190-3X.
25, Belgium surplus from 1977, 189-7X.
26, South African surplus from 1981, 189-1X.
27, Pakistan military surplus from 1979. Score of 188-4X.
28, Indonesian surplus from 1985, 187-1X.

You can read about my trips to the range right here.DI5

Surplus ammunition cost right here.
 
#7 ·
"... like was suggested, that I should run through it, by the springfield armory customer service rep, that i spoke with over the phone. When I asked her if it was ok to run surplus ammo she said "but why would you want to?"
Hmmm...
Sounds to me like somebody who, if they even have actual experience...has access to the Company Guns at the Company Range and the Big Box of Company Ammo !!!

GI8 GI6 GITEN

Cavman in WYoming(who has shot more 'Milslurp' than he can afford! GI6 )
 
#8 ·
"Ok, so it is my understanding that surplus ammo is dirtier, and less acurate. But the trade off is being much cheaper."

I realize the choices offered were only surplus or commercial, but just to complicate things I'll point out that you can handload ammo as good as the finest commercial ammo for about the cost of surplus. It's a no-brainer to me...

Tim
 
#9 ·
I can produce a M852 match clone for $0.38/round.

168 gr Nosler CC BTHP ($0.18/bullet)
41.3 gr IMR-4895 ($0.13)
LC case ($0.04/case/load - 4 reloads)
WLR primer ($0.03/primer)

Handloading is the best way to save money and generate sub-MOA ammunition. Simply the cheapest and most accurate ammo one can get their hands on.

As far as surplus goes, most of it is 2-3 MOA ammunition. I have used Lithuanian and Pvri Partizan M80 ball with expected results. No cleaning issues...just a bit more dirty than handloads. Premium match grade ammo is going to cost you $1.25 - $1.50/round.
 
#10 ·
Another thing to consider is whether the "surplus" is reloadable. I'm not buying any caliber unless it is reloadable. Surplus used to be "good" because it was cheap...(SA battlepaks, how cheap was it?) but now it is going for very close to new/reloadable Prvi and Lith. So regardless of what you use, do yourself a favor and get brass you can reload. "Money in the bank" As far as I'm concerned.
 
#12 ·
"Premium match grade ammo is going to cost you $1.25 - $1.50/round." Here in central FL, Federal Gold Medal Match is $38.95 per 20 plus 7% sales tax....more like $2 per round. Reloading is the only way to go for decent pricing on accurate ammunition.
 
#13 ·
$2/rd=YIKES!

me...for my .02, cut your teeth and get started on the mil-surp.

I blam away with it: plink, have fun, and target shoot with it. great fun!

then, when you get the "feel" of the stick and wanna drive tacks with it, upgrade to the "high-price" ammo.

P.S.
want a real inexpensive way to go=reload using mil-surp brass, take down powder and pulled bullets. Like the Limbo Dance Man sang: "How low can you go?"
 
#14 ·
Guys! There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Surplus Ammo, I have shot it now for Years for 100 and 200yds in Competition and I stay in the Black or the 10 Ring with most of it , one just has to know what Your Rifle likes, 80% of it does NOT shoot Dirty, that is a Myth! I know which ones do and don't from shooting about all of it, about 20 years ago I only shot Reloads( including practice) but I found out that I did not have to spend all that time(which I don't have) reloading. as far as Berdan vs Boxer is concerned, sell Your Berdan to the Junkman, Brass is Sky High right now and You will be well rewarded to buy more Ammo of Your Choice!DI5
 
#16 ·
Since you give SA Inc. prestige suggestion which instills doubt in your mind, you are going to have trouble with anything but Hornady TAP. The psychology of shooting is pointed out by that old experiment with those of us who flinch when firing anything over a rimfire caliber. A fellow shooter loads a empty cartridge in your rifle without your knowing and thus if you flinch or not is seen easily (doesn't work well with a semiauto). It is more important that you get settled in with a good surplus round like Portugese, German, Radway Green etc. and get as good as you can before you go onto match ammo.
 
#19 ·
Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear is not Surplus Ammo,It is Bad Commercial Ammo, If you are just shooting to hear Your Rifle go "Bang" then go ahead and use it, for anything else it is worthless at any Price!
 
#20 ·
I would highly recommend using surplus ammo if you do not have the time or facilities to reload.

However that being said, I would also try as many diffrent makes in small lots as I could get my hands on and fire for accuracy, then buy what groups best for your particular rifle.
See my "Long story getting frustrated" post. Good leason learned there. The ammo that I have performed good with the old barrel, but now it is not so well with the new. It might get better with more rounds.

If you are only interested in buying new, I would highly recommend the Federal Gold Medal Match. I Paid $22.00 for a box of 20 last week. I believe it is cheaper than the TAP. It is also the ammo that Springfield uses to test groups with at the factory I believe. Very good ammo.

I also would not hesitate to buy the Winchester white box or the Federal American Eagle brands either. Check all your options before purchasing in large quantities, ammo is too expensive now days to buy something that you are not happy with.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for all of the info everyone.

I really would like to find a decent type of ammo that I can buy 500 or 1,000 rounds of so I can really get a feel for my new socom. I definitely won't be shooting any competitions or anything.

I hear people say things like corrosive. Is surplus, or wolf or something along those lines going to do something bad to my rifle that other ammo won't?
 
#22 ·
FWIW....I don`t know of any corrosive ammo being offered for sale by any of the suppliers out there, the last one I knew of that had any for sale was SAMCO...if you check XXIV Corps`. sticky for cheapest prices for ammo you will see the suppliers who most commonly offer surplus/new ammo for sale...I don`t know of any surplus NATO spec ammo that is unhealthy for your rifle...IMHO I would not use Wolf in my gas guns...HTH
 
#24 ·
Research, the only good game in town anymore......

FWIW (For what's it Worth) ....I don`t know of any corrosive ammo being offered for sale by any of the suppliers out there, the last one I knew of that had any for sale was SAMCO...if you check XXIV Corps`. sticky for cheapest prices for ammo you will see the suppliers who most commonly offer surplus/new ammo for sale...I don`t know of any surplus NATO spec ammo that is unhealthy for your rifle...IMHO I would not use Wolf in my gas guns...HTH (Hope that helps)
+1 here too, I would never use Russian ammunition in a US military rifle or clone type that has a gas systemDI5 , they are far from being our friends.
 
#25 ·
Wolf and the Bears (silver & brown) are steel cased, rather than brass. They also use the nastiest, stinkiest powder known to man.

Guys, all the talk of high dollar ammo is a little off the mark. We're talking about a SOCOM here, if you're wanting match accuracy, you're getting the wrong rifle. Milsurp will do fine, as a SOCOM is a designated short range rifle, and the milsurp will be a good match out to a couple of hundred yards.

The 'shoot Hornady' line from SAI is strictly a lawyer's rule. Can you imagine the lawsuits if they said "go ahead, shoot the cheapest milsurp you can find, it's good to go!", then someone got ahold of some of that Argy spike ammo and had a kaboom? If they tell you to use Hornady (who probably supplies them with all their test ammo in return for being their 'suggested' ammo), they have both the reasonable confidence that Hornady makes good ammo, and that Hornady will be getting their share of the blame in the lawsuite.


Study up on what good surp is, then buy it, shoot it, and be happy!
 
#28 ·
Thanks again all.

I am still missing the point of what some of you guys are trying to say though. Why would you not want wolf in a gas operated rifle?

I am strictly trying to figure out what wolf, or some other "cheap" ammo brand, will do to my rifle that Hornady, or some other "expensive" ammo type will not?

Example: some say it's dirtier, what does that mean, an extra hour at the cleaning bench? Or my rifle failing to fire after a few hundred rounds, or what are we talking here?

Why will wolf mess up, or be bad for the gas system, and hornady will not? Are we talking damage to the rifle?


Can one of you, who have that opinion, please expand on that a little? thanks

-steve
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top