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Me + Math = WHAAAAA???

This is a discussion on Me + Math = WHAAAAA??? within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Capona The difference in drop at 1,000 is 5-6 feet less for a BC of 618. That would be higher efficiency through ...


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Old March 14th, 2017, 04:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Capona View Post
The difference in drop at 1,000 is 5-6 feet less for a BC of 618.
That would be higher efficiency through the atmosphere.
-------
To clarify my earlier claim about BC being a 'non-issue'.

I certainly didn't mean that the needed elevation setting would be the same for both bullets. Only that for known-distance targets everyone pretty much knows what elev is needed at each distance for their ammo. And yes the higher BC bullet might need 8 less moa elev than a bullet of less BC - but the shooters of both of those bullets know how much elev they need, and they just crank the sights.

A higher BC can help with windage because the higher BC bullet is less affected by the wind. So the total amount of moa changes that are needed would be less with a high BC, but the shooter/coach is still required to determine that number - maybe 5 with hi-BC or 7 with lower-BC.

If a high BC bullet is accurate and reliable, then there's no 'mechanical' reason to not use it.

Many people hate to worry about whether the next box of bullets will be the same as the previous, so they stick with a bullet choice that the know and trust, and have learned how to shoot it!

Jay Kosta
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Old March 14th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #32
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Higher the BC number= more efficient.
More efficient means it cuts through the atmosphere better,easier, cleaner.
Cutting through the atmosphere better means less drag which causes drop and wind impact.

All meaningless until you start pushing distances over 300 and really becomes a factor @ 800.
Capona has it right! I zero my hunting rifle @ 200 meters and IF can find a stable rest will hold 'top of the back' on deer sized game...
Works at my target range anyway...

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Old March 15th, 2017, 06:05 AM   #33
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Dang Walt you have taught me something I will have to check those bullets out .618 BC is excellent in a .30 cal,looks like you are doing a lot of homework

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Old March 15th, 2017, 06:22 AM   #34
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Walt I just checked out that Alco site ,they do have some interesting products have you Actualy ordered from them if so let us know how they work

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Old March 15th, 2017, 06:42 AM   #35
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Dang Walt you have taught me something I will have to check those bullets out .618 BC is excellent in a .30 cal,looks like you are doing a lot of homework
I'm trying. I want to understand all this stuff as much as possible going into not just plinking but hunting, so I try to educate myself as much as possible.

You should have seen how long it took me to research and narrow down when I bought my first brand new motorcycle. I want to say it was 6 months of research, reviews, going into the dealers like 3 times a week to check ergonomics, etc... by the time I bought something the salespeople were breathing sighs of relief! :D

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Walt I just checked out that Alco site ,they do have some interesting products have you Actualy ordered from them if so let us know how they work
I don't reload (yet) - so I have not personally used them. I had heard of them before from a different channel but discarded them because at the time I had no plans of owning a rifle, but also I had never seen one in person until I went to the range for the first time with the M1A a few weeks ago and a guy in the stall next to me pulled out a box of them he had made in 300 blackout. He didn't shoot them - he was showing them to a friend he was shooting with. They looked too cool not to dig into a little bit more.

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Old March 15th, 2017, 07:37 AM   #36
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Can someone help me understand this?

Ballistic Coefficient - which is better, or, is it relative to the round?
I've got my different MFG hunting rounds in to test in the M1A for best-in-the-gun accuracy once my optic arrives and I get it zeroed, and one thing the ballistic caclualtor wants to know is ballistic coefficient. So I looked it up on all the rounds and made a spreadsheet to keep handy, wrote it all down, but what I realized is: I have no clue what it means in comparison to one another.

So what I've got is 5 rounds with G1 profiles...
1 round @ 165gr and a 0.496 B.C.
1 round @ 168gr and a 0.470 B.C.
1 round @ 168gr and a 0.503 B.C.
1 round @ 165gr and a 0.447 B.C.
and 1 more round that matched @ 168gr and a 0.470 B.C.

If I understand it right - that would mean the 0.447 round is the best from a perspective of "aerodynamics" of the bullet, correct? It is the round to beat compared to the others, with the 0.503 being the "worst" of the bunch, yeah?

At practical hunting distances, I would be more concerned about the terminal performance on game. Are all of your choices true hunting bullets, like a Winchester Ballistic Silvertip, or are they target bullets?

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Old March 15th, 2017, 07:39 AM   #37
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Honestly, it's easy to get stuck in "analysis paralysis" researching too many choices...then there's the seduction of what's way cool, or "in"....

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Old March 15th, 2017, 08:01 AM   #38
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I was / am a huge Longmire fan myself so Kudos on name. I am new to the m1a myself but I have been shooting ,hunting and realoading for years .i must say you live in a lovely area but challenging .My brother inlaw worked for digital electronics back in the 80s and I had tne oportunity to hunt that area .

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Old March 15th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #39
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The Winchester silvertip is loaded with nosler ballastic tips they have a black coating on them moly I think. Perfect for deer or hogs, I would assume elk as well.These bullets have a reputation of coming apart but in my hands on use of them they hold up well. This one penetrated front right shoulder and was recovered in the left rear cheek just under the hide. That's roughly 3 feet of penetration. This particular one was Winchester brand but a nosler 165 gr ballistic tip fired from a 300wsm. But these are lead core bullets. Never used any of the solid copper bullets at all.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:17 AM   #40
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At practical hunting distances, I would be more concerned about the terminal performance on game. Are all of your choices true hunting bullets, like a Winchester Ballistic Silvertip, or are they target bullets?
All are hunting rounds - but they are all lead free / copper BTHP rounds with some sort of ballistic tip. All between 165 and 168gr. 2x w/ Barnes TTSX (one Barnes direct load, 1 Fiocchi load w/ that bullet), 1x w/ Nosler E-Tip, 1x w/ Federal "Trophy" tipped, and 1x w/ Hornday GMX tipped. None as far as I know are rated as "target" / "match" rounds.

I didn't want to go with anything that had lead in them. Personal preference, that's all.

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Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Honestly, it's easy to get stuck in "analysis paralysis" researching too many choices...then there's the seduction of what's way cool, or "in"....
Yeah if I was swayed by "cool" or "in" I'd be using an AR-10 and carrying a Glock or a CZ, not huffing around a 14lbs M1A and my trusty GI series 1911. :)

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I was / am a huge Longmire fan myself so Kudos on name. I am new to the m1a myself but I have been shooting ,hunting and realoading for years .i must say you live in a lovely area but challenging .My brother inlaw worked for digital electronics back in the 80s and I had tne oportunity to hunt that area .
It is gorgeous country. I've lived here 32 years this coming July and I have never been bored by the awesomeness of these lands. I haven't hunted in 27 of those years, so most of that experience has been strapped to a proper v-twin pasta-rocket blazing through the high country twisties. I am very much looking towards experiencing the landscapes for the thrill of the hunt as well with my son soon enough!

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Originally Posted by Wasted ammo View Post
The Winchester silvertip is loaded with nosler ballastic tips they have a black coating on them moly I think. Perfect for deer or hogs, I would assume elk as well.These bullets have a reputation of coming apart but in my hands on use of them they hold up well. This one penetrated front right shoulder and was recovered in the left rear cheek just under the hide. That's roughly 3 feet of penetration. This particular one was Winchester brand but a nosler 165 gr ballistic tip fired from a 300wsm. But these are lead core bullets. Never used any of the solid copper bullets at all.
Yeah lead passing through meat I intend to eat freaks me out a bit. I know you cut away from the wound channel - but still... I'd rather trust copper rounds that have a repeatable 95-99% retention weight, you know? Personal preference I guess.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 06:43 AM   #41
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Italian sports bikes and m1a rifles you do have good taste ,not cheap but good . I only have first hand experience with tne Barnes ttsx in non lead hunting bullets but they get the job done .

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