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Me + Math = WHAAAAA???

This is a discussion on Me + Math = WHAAAAA??? within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Keep in mind that BCs are often not very accurate. The top three bullets are pretty darned close to one another....


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Old March 10th, 2017, 03:46 PM   #16
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Keep in mind that BCs are often not very accurate. The top three bullets are pretty darned close to one another.

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Old March 10th, 2017, 04:06 PM   #17
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I agree with what dist1646 says with the caveat that accuracy should be the 1st choice, BC the 2nd. I'd rather shoot ammo that was 1/2 MOA and .480BC than 1 MOA at .500BC.

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Old March 10th, 2017, 05:28 PM   #18
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Walt,

What are your expected hunting ranges? I use a Ruger M77 Mk II in .308 for my deer hunting out here until I can get me another M1A to switch to.
I zero my deer rifle at 200 meters and do not worry about the bullets BC.
Best to just work on shooting skills .esp if wanting to shoot long range...

Jeff

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Old March 11th, 2017, 06:53 AM   #19
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For a hunting round the ballistic coeeficient isn't as important as most people who talk and read and write about hunting want you to believe .The most important thing is this how does that bullet perform on game at the ranges you can actually consistently hit the kill zone if the animal you are trying to hunt .The truth is honestly most people can't actually hit the kill zone of a say elk size animal past 250 yards or so with a 3 to 9 power scope in actual field conditions .i personally believe as far as hunting goes all this long range stuff is doing a disservice to sportsmen who try to be ethical in the field .Can a master shooter with a match rifle hit a 12 inch target at 500 yards ? Sure. Can he hit that target at the same distance if it is moving around he has been hiking for 4 hours under actual feild conditions every time I mean everytime right in the boiler room with an ethical kill .No ,no one can .But say they can every shot every time under any condition ok this hunter is shooting a 500 coefficient bullet that starts out life at 2500 fps at tne muzzle at about 300 yards it is going to drop below 2000 fps and steadily slw down from there making bullet expansion decrease along with velocity making it more and more important to put that projectile right in the perfect spot .Yea it makes good reading ,and good theorizing on line ect but if you are serious about hunting elk with an m1a load up all your kit you will be hunting with hike with you kit ever how far you think you will be hiking and without taking a breather start shooting at say 250 yards you get 3 shots at best before animal will be moveing too fast actually 2 shots maybe in tne real world but I'll give ya 3 at least one shot has to be perfect if you do that try tne same thing with target at 300 yards . In my opinion if you want to hunt learn to track and spot your game ,get yourself in physical condition and learn to hit a kill shot everytime at your hunting max range which means the maximum range you can make that kill shot everytime under field conditions at the range limitation of your hunting calibe as yes even the mighty 7.62 had limits as effectiveness on game and leave the ballistic coeeficient 800 yard blah blah to target shooters and snipers ,ect . I'm sorry I don't mean to sound like I'm lecturing but in my opinion these long range gurus have done a disservice to sportsmen by trying to make it seem as if shooting game at 500 yards is just something any one can do .I would bet money the average hunter can't hit a full grown cow in a pasture at 500 yards after toting their gear say a quarter mile and do it in 60 seconds from set up to trigger pull much less hit a twitching moveing 12 inch target .

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Old March 11th, 2017, 07:42 AM   #20
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Oh, my head hurts...

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Old March 11th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Humphrey View Post
Now...if I screwed any of that up, somebody can set me straight.



You could have used a more attractive long nose Blenheim...


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Old March 11th, 2017, 12:37 PM   #22
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M14wannabe,
It's not the long range shooter gurus that encourage hunters to take extreme range shots at game, but it is the hunter that makes that choice and you are correct most being worn out, out of breath, shaky, etc. would have a hard time hitting a game target at 500yds. in short order under such conditions. However, just the opposite is true that most hunters with more than enough rest time, prone, sling, would have a difficult time routinely hitting the 10 or X ring with whatever sights they may use and the more distance the worse their performance would be. Two entirely different worlds but the experienced long range shooter most likely to hit what he is shooting at than the ordinary hunter at whatever range. If a humane kill shot can not be taken then it should not be taken for the sake of good hunting practice. JMO

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Old March 12th, 2017, 05:24 AM   #23
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Yes Instructor you are correct.I got off subject actually a hunting bullet say a Nosler Accubond in .308 cal has excellent performance on game to about 1800 fps according to the're literature .A 165 grn Accubond has a BC of .475 with a muzzle velocity of 2550 fps that means your effective hunting range is limited to about 400 yards which is where the velocity threshold is higher ballistic coefficient bullet might stretch that velocity threshold another 100 yards but only the best shooter could use that potential in the field .Bullet performance on game is more important than .025 higher ballistic coefficient that that is why we have a Seiera match king and a Seiera game king .

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Old March 12th, 2017, 08:43 AM   #24
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Also keep in mind that BC is useful for 'advertising' - it's a 'REAL NUMBER' that buyers can be led to believe is important!

For distances out to about 300 yards, BC is pretty much irrevelant. Beyond that it has more importance, but ONLY if the ammo and rifle shoot accurately in the first place.

A higher BC doesn't make the bullet more 'accurate', it just means the bullet 'flies better' to WHERE EVER it happens to hit!

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

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Old March 14th, 2017, 07:48 AM   #25
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Well...

The optic has arrived!!!!
I am going to try to hit the range Thursday morning and put these rounds to the test. Anticipated weather will be 74 degrees as a high (probably about 60 at 10am when I'll go), 15 mph winds from the west (I'll be shooting SLIGHTLY into the wind depending on how well the bunkers block it) with only an 18% humidity level.

I will definitely need to do the 2 minutes between each shot concept to test viability after I get the optic zeroed in. Pictures and maybe even video will follow as soon as possible!

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Old March 14th, 2017, 08:09 AM   #26
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Higher the BC number= more efficient.
More efficient means it cuts through the atmosphere better,easier, cleaner.
Cutting through the atmosphere better means less drag which causes drop and wind impact.

All meaningless until you start pushing distances over 300 and really becomes a factor @ 800.

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Old March 14th, 2017, 09:20 AM   #27
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Roger that!
So if I got into 1000 yard distance shooting (target, not hunting), and reloading for that purpose, these things right here might just qualify as a total BMF round?


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Old March 14th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Longmire View Post
...
----------------------------
Unless that delicate looking tip gets deformed and buggers the BC.

For 'known distance' target shooting the amount of bullet drop is really a non-issue - especially with multiple sighting shots.
A high BC can help in variable wind conditions, but even then it's more the skill of the shooter/coach to determine the correct windage than 'getting lucky' because of a higher BC bullet.

The 'starting point' is having every bullet in the box behaving the same way. If a serious competitor begins to think that a few 'oops' bullets are to be expected, then that bullet choice is soon replaced.

Jay Kosta
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Old March 14th, 2017, 12:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKosta View Post
----------------------------
Unless that delicate looking tip gets deformed and buggers the BC.

For 'known distance' target shooting the amount of bullet drop is really a non-issue - especially with multiple sighting shots.
A high BC can help in variable wind conditions, but even then it's more the skill of the shooter/coach to determine the correct windage than 'getting lucky' because of a higher BC bullet.

The 'starting point' is having every bullet in the box behaving the same way. If a serious competitor begins to think that a few 'oops' bullets are to be expected, then that bullet choice is soon replaced.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
See... I really do learn something new every day.
Thanks!

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Old March 14th, 2017, 02:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Longmire View Post
See... I really do learn something new every day.
Thanks!
The difference in drop at 1,000 is 5-6 feet less for a BC of 618.
That would be higher efficiency through the atmosphere.

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