Neck sizing only for the m1A. - M14 Forum

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Neck sizing only for the m1A.

This is a discussion on Neck sizing only for the m1A. within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Rather neck sizing only is a good idea for a M1A/M1 Garand is open for debate... From my point of view, it is asking for ...


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Old January 21st, 2017, 03:07 PM   #1
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Neck sizing only for the m1A.

Rather neck sizing only is a good idea for a M1A/M1 Garand is open for debate... From my point of view, it is asking for trouble. The kind of trouble costing a lay-out for a new receiver... Even shooting with the gas off is questionable, but if you are determined to do so, shut it off....'

It would a better idea to fire form a case with a light powder charge of 2400 and fill the void with kopoc or cornmeal...

Reloading for accuracy is best accomplished investing it the tools to measure twice and fire once, I stole the line.. Art

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Old January 21st, 2017, 03:58 PM   #2
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Hello, ahh, alright. You let me know how that turns out for you.... I'll stick with neck sizing for my bolt action rifles only... Yet, that's just me...
And, Cornmeal?? as a filler/packing agent, is that out of the New and improved Vol. 11, Tex-Mex reloading manual???. Just messing with you... Now, I'm want chilli and cornbread for dinner for some reason...

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Old January 21st, 2017, 04:09 PM   #3
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I recommend NEVER trying just neck sizing for an autoloader - do full-length resize so the cases chamber easily.

A champion shooter (who won both NRA XTC and LR in same year) said the fit in the chamber should be 'like a rat turd in a violin case' - and that was for reloading Palma rifles.

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Old January 22nd, 2017, 02:07 PM   #4
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NO!

Beside that, blowing cornmeal into the gas system would not have positive results with the rifle in question.

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Old January 22nd, 2017, 05:09 PM   #5
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Your incorrect

The M1 gas system is not like the M14 system if you failed noticed, it is to a large degree self cleaning, there is no place for a case filler like corn-meal to hide. Very little carbon builds up in a M1 cylinder. There is more carbon on the piston head than the cyl. walls.

Do you speak from experience or just speak? I have fired thousands of rounds of cast bullets through a M1, using an assortmen of case fillers without an issue.. Art

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Old January 22nd, 2017, 05:36 PM   #6
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Why would someone go through the trouble of counting how many times a case has been neck sized before they need to FL size? Brass life in a semi auto isn't long enough to really matter. 4 or 5 firings with a semi vs. 2, 3, or even 4 times that through a bolt action. Even then, if you don't overwork the brass, FL sizing is just fine, and brass life remains long.

I bump the shoulders of my semi auto brass .005 to .006, and my bolt action brass .002 to .003. I also don't use fancy expensive match brass in my M1a anymore. It isn't accurate enough to matter compared to my bolt action rifles.

I tried neck sizing, it isn't worth the trouble. After a few firings neck sizing, FL sizing is necessary to feed and extract reliably.

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Old January 23rd, 2017, 07:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JMGlasgow View Post
Why would someone go through the trouble of counting how many times a case has been neck sized before they need to FL size?
One does not count, one measures the shoulder position. If the shoulder has blown forward, then one pushes it back with a body die of FL die.

In the case of the modern M1A (n.e. M14) the topology of the chamber of the gun in question is paramount. In my gun, for example, correctly sizing the case shoulder with a FL die or with a body die leaves the base of the case wide enough to cause feeding and lock problems (that go away if sized with a small base body die.) The shoulder position is one of the critical parameters, but so wi the diameter of the case base.

The trick with autoloaders is that the whole case has to slide into the chamber with so little resistance that the momentum fed lockup happens.

I happen to Neck size my M14 ammo. The dies I have are all NO based sizers, but my M1A is finicky enough that I size with a SB body die, then Neck size with bushings, then throw the cases in the tumbler for a clean. Most people would NOT consider this a Neck Only sizing regimen.

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Old January 23rd, 2017, 09:17 AM   #8
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I use to Full length resize my cases for the M1A/M14, I have had some issues with chambering, specially with once fired military brass.

Now I use a small base die for my M14's, however I have never had any issues with my M1.

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Old January 23rd, 2017, 10:15 AM   #9
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Fire forming a case in a semi-auto is a myth, you have to FLS an autoloader, negating any "fire forming".

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Old January 23rd, 2017, 12:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
One does not count, one measures the shoulder position. If the shoulder has blown forward, then one pushes it back with a body die of FL die.

In the case of the modern M1A (n.e. M14) the topology of the chamber of the gun in question is paramount. In my gun, for example, correctly sizing the case shoulder with a FL die or with a body die leaves the base of the case wide enough to cause feeding and lock problems (that go away if sized with a small base body die.) The shoulder position is one of the critical parameters, but so wi the diameter of the case base.

The trick with autoloaders is that the whole case has to slide into the chamber with so little resistance that the momentum fed lockup happens.

I happen to Neck size my M14 ammo. The dies I have are all NO based sizers, but my M1A is finicky enough that I size with a SB body die, then Neck size with bushings, then throw the cases in the tumbler for a clean. Most people would NOT consider this a Neck Only sizing regimen.

I still maintain that neck sizing is a useless step. It doesn't improve accuracy, it doesn't improve case life either.

I never needed to use a small base die for either of my M14/M1A rifles. And one of them is a Supermatch. My Garand does need small base dies to function correctly and not stick casings or rip the rim off the brass.

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Old January 25th, 2017, 08:42 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by JMGlasgow View Post
I still maintain that neck sizing is a useless step. It doesn't improve accuracy, it doesn't improve case life either.
This may be absolutely correct for an M1A; where case life is limited by the violent extraction process.
However, I am getting 30+ reload cycles on my 308 reloads in my M40 without annealing the necks using bushing dies.

As to the question of a useless step:: I have the bushing dies from my M40 stuff, I do not have FL 308 dies. So, in my case, I have no choice.

Art's original point was NO sizing is "asking for trouble".
My original point was the proper procedure gets rid of the trouble Art perceives.

Quote:
I never needed to use a small base die for either of my M14/M1A rifles. And one of them is a Supermatch. My Garand does need small base dies to function correctly and not stick casings or rip the rim off the brass.
The M14 is the first gun I have that has needed SB dies. If I had the tools to remove the barrel and polish the chamber, I could probably get rid of this limitation, too.

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Old January 25th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #12
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Some interesting comments have appeared.

After reading all of them, I come to the conclusion that reloaders have different piorities, standards and feel safe becasue no serious issues have resulted.. They have got away with it, so far. Good luck to all of you..

One question remains in this case sizing topic, for me anyway.. The question is: What is the best relationship between the loaded round and the M14 rifle chamber, best meaning safe to both rifle and shooter. The second part of this question is a relationship that produces the top accuracy of the rifle in question.. Art

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Old January 25th, 2017, 11:39 AM   #13
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I've always seen my best accuracy when fully processing brass identically; sizing, trimming, primer pocket reaming and bullet seating. Brass life has never been much of a concern and shooting with the gas system turned off, well...

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Old January 25th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
This may be absolutely correct for an M1A; where case life is limited by the violent extraction process.
However, I am getting 30+ reload cycles on my 308 reloads in my M40 without annealing the necks using bushing dies.

As to the question of a useless step:: I have the bushing dies from my M40 stuff, I do not have FL 308 dies. So, in my case, I have no choice.

Art's original point was NO sizing is "asking for trouble".
My original point was the proper procedure gets rid of the trouble Art perceives.



The M14 is the first gun I have that has needed SB dies. If I had the tools to remove the barrel and polish the chamber, I could probably get rid of this limitation, too.
MitchAlsup,

I have always neck sized my .308 or .30-06 bolt action deer rifles and load them until the necks split!
Never felt the need to upgrade my dies for deer.

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Old January 27th, 2017, 06:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art luppino View Post
What is the best relationship between the loaded round and the M14 rifle chamber, best meaning safe to both rifle and shooter.
The fully loaded round should drop into the chamber and sit at the shoulder with the barrel pointed downward. The bolt should be able to close with no perceptible force with the extractor, ejector, firing pin, and bolt return spring removed. That round should fall back out of the action when the barrel is pointed upwards.

Other than the above, the case should be as large in every dimension possible (excepting case neck length) but with all the above remaining true.

As to the second question: I really don't know.

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