600 yd slow prone load for XTC - M14 Forum

M14 Forum


600 yd slow prone load for XTC

This is a discussion on 600 yd slow prone load for XTC within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Since I'm new to both the M14 and .308, I don't have much personal experience to draw on here. Hopefully someone suggest a decent starting ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Ammunition

21Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old December 18th, 2016, 09:34 AM   #1
Grunt
 
Allen Humphrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dry side of Washington
Posts: 91
600 yd slow prone load for XTC

Since I'm new to both the M14 and .308, I don't have much personal experience to draw on here. Hopefully someone suggest a decent starting point based on their findings.

The numbers on the Hornady 178 ELD look pretty darn good. Presuming a CMP legal service rifle M14 WITH AN ADJUSTABLE GAS PLUG, what kind of muzzle velocity is achievable within safe chamber pressures? Load suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Allen Humphrey is online now  
Remove Ads
Old December 18th, 2016, 09:45 AM   #2
Rifleman
 
DstRflMn645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 65
Allen,

I would try to duplicate 175 FGMM. I have shot and chrono'ed load and it is fairly close to 2600 FPS and very accurate. My personnel load is 42 gr./ 4064 with 175 Sierra Matchking. I find that Wolf or CCi BR2 give me the lowest standard deviation.

John

Thanks from dist1646 and deiter
DstRflMn645 is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 09:52 AM   #3
Old Salt
 
POLACK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: south east Florida
Posts: 1,564
get a good chronograph also

POLACK is online now  
 
Old December 18th, 2016, 10:25 AM   #4
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,112
The M1A/M14 at 600yds. is quite comfortable for that range and no reason to use the "warmest" loads available. 2600fps loads will do nicely and since single loading only you can adjust your bullet seating depth where you can see some improvement in accuracy, less bullet jump into the bore if you will. If available to you, test your loads at the 300yd. line for repeatable accuracy with your chosen load for at that range you will experience more wind impact than at the 100-200yd. line. Gets you prepared for wind doping when you actually are at the 600yd. line. Many do but I don't suggest the SMK 168's but prefer the 175 SMK w/ 12 twist barrel. For longer ranges you would need to be in the 2700fps range, but no reason to "hump" the rifle at 600yds. Velocity does not necessarily equate to accuracy. I have never used an adjustable gas plug for did not use the M1A/M14 for matches beyond the 600yd. line and when doing so used a bolt gun, but that is just me for others certainly do use M14 for extended ranges. Good luck to you.

Instructor is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 12:52 PM   #5
Lifer
 
JayKosta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Endwell NY
Posts: 2,046
A 'vanilla' load using a match-grade HPBT bullet in the 150 - 175 grain range will be fine.

A very basic good load would be 168SMK, and 41.5 grain of IMR/H4895 or 42 grain 4064. At 600 yards, I don't think the 175SMK is worth the extra recoil, but it too will work fine.

I've had good results with WIN-LR / CCI200 / Wolf primers.
You can tinker with cartridge OAL, but just loading to magazine length (2.80 - 2.83) is fine.

It's worth remembering that for 100 - 600 yard HP XTC type shooing, the Federal Gold Medal Match 308Win with 168SMK is the standard of comparison that just about everyone hopes to equal.

At 600, the wind is the important part. Learning how to read the flags and mirage is tough - because they're usually all telling different stories!
And if you start hearing alot of "oh @#$" around you, STOP and scope those targets to see what's going on. Usually it's a wind change that got missed and causing a bunch of L/R movement.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

JayKosta is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #6
Dodgin' The Reaper
 
danthman114's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Yuma, Az
Posts: 5,120
600yds is cake for these rifles. A 168 great at around 2650 is impressive... At least for my rifle...

danthman114 is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 02:28 PM   #7
Grunt
 
Allen Humphrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dry side of Washington
Posts: 91
Thanks all so far for the input so far. I'm familiar with the challenges of wind (not the master thereof, just familiar:) ) I currently shoot both NRA(master class) and EIC(still sitting on 20) across the course with an AR service rifle.

I plan to shoot the M14 for a few NRA matches this year just to keep things fun. However, due to a character flaw I have the most "fun" when I can still be competitive. Hence my interest in a really good 600 load that will keep me in the race with other service rifles.

In our area of Eastern Washington very variable wind is the norm. Its easy to miss a wind change from the time you leave the scope and break the shot. I'm not really recoil sensitive, so a stout 600 line load sounds appropriate. I'm just wondering if the adjustable plug opens up some opportunities.

Thanks,

Allen Humphrey is online now  
Old December 18th, 2016, 02:52 PM   #8
Old Salt
 
Patchhound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,623
I will second JayKosta's post. My 600yd Load is as follows:
41.0gr H4895
168 SMK
COAL 2.805
CCI BR2
LC Brass.

If I can do my part, it will shoot. In my home state ranges, I don't have to contend with a great deal of wind.
I run this in my Supermatch and my dad uses it in both of his NM M1As.

Patchhound is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 03:21 PM   #9
Master Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: south dakota
Posts: 981
Allen, after you have completed all the legal mechanical modifications to your rifle, I would suggest that you work up a loading ladder for both the 168SMK and the ELD178 match to see what works best for your rifle-each one will be different. Yours may like the ELD178 or it may like the 168SMK. Not a real big fan of the adjustable gas plug as it adds another variable to the equation. You do not want to run the M1A too fast as it is really hard on the rifle. Some of the pros on here have had good luck with 125TNT's for 100,200, and 300 yard ranges so it would seem that a real heavy bullet is not necessary for accuracy. the 175's or 178's would be better used for 600-1,000 yard work. The M1A is not a bolt gun nor an AR and runs best around 2600fps.

boomerpusher is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 03:49 PM   #10
Lifer
 
JayKosta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Endwell NY
Posts: 2,046
A 175-185 grain bullet will have less wind drift than a 168, so that might get an additional point, or X.

The SMK bullets seem to not be very sensitive to the amount of 'jump' to the lands. Berger 185's seem popular with dedicated LR shooters, and they might need more consideration about 'jump'.

I think a 175-185 will be completely competitive with a 223cal 80.

For best 600y loads, I'd weigh each powder charge to +/- 0.1 grain, and have brass that weighs +/- 0.5 grain.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

JayKosta is offline  
Old December 18th, 2016, 04:26 PM   #11
Lifer
 
Bamban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,838

Awards Showcase

My advice to the new shooters at our club is to get on the bench at 200 yards till they clean the SR target then get on the reduced 300 at 2 before they train in slow fire prone. What is the relevance of shooting from the bench and training at 200 to 600 yard shooting? My short answer comes 2 fold.

1. Bench shooting with irons provides you the best feedback whether the new shooter can produce repeatable sight picture and trigger control. Yes, you can steer the whole rifle with the trigger finger even when shooting the most steady position - supported on the bench.

2. Training prone at 200 will provide you a good feedback on the new shooter's ability to break the shot and call it. There is no wind to contend with, given a good load and a good rifle, once zeroed shots outside the 10 ring all belong to the shooter.

Back to the 600 ammo, from all the projectiles mentioned, find the one that shoots the best in your rifle. You don't have to worry too much and wrapped around with the BC game, it is only 600 yards, whichever shoots tiny knots in your rifle will be capable of shooting cleans. When you get on the 600 yards eventually, wind reading is the last challenge you need to master because if you train in the reduced course and got real good at it where you can shoot master + scores, your basic fundamentals to break good shot in prone is already squared away, meaning you can break a shot, call it and it is on call. If you hit the 600 Yard line without a lot of training on the reduced course, when you shoot a 9 or worst, you will be wondering whether it was you or the condition.

Bamban is offline  
Old December 21st, 2016, 07:27 AM   #12
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DstRflMn645 View Post
Allen,

I would try to duplicate 175 FGMM. I have shot and chrono'ed load and it is fairly close to 2600 FPS and very accurate. My personnel load is 42 gr./ 4064 with 175 Sierra Matchking. I find that Wolf or CCi BR2 give me the lowest standard deviation.

John
What he said

deiter is offline  
Old December 21st, 2016, 08:29 AM   #13
Master Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: south dakota
Posts: 981
Listen to Bamban, he's been snapping caps for a long time on the competitive circuit and know what he's talking about.

Thanks from Firedude67
boomerpusher is offline  
Old December 21st, 2016, 07:54 PM   #14
Old Salt
 
JEFFJP_N_JJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: California, USA?
Posts: 1,482
I just loaded up 20 rounds of LC '05 brass with 42.0 H4895/CCI BR-2/168 Hornady 168 Amaxes

Hope I get to try them and cronograph soon guys!

JEFFJP_N_JJ is online now  
Old January 7th, 2017, 11:53 PM   #15
Snappin In
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKosta View Post
A 175-185 grain bullet will have less wind drift than a 168, so that might get an additional point, or X.

The SMK bullets seem to not be very sensitive to the amount of 'jump' to the lands. Berger 185's seem popular with dedicated LR shooters, and they might need more consideration about 'jump'.

I think a 175-185 will be completely competitive with a 223cal 80.

For best 600y loads, I'd weigh each powder charge to +/- 0.1 grain, and have brass that weighs +/- 0.5 grain.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
Same think I was thinking

jlbmarine is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Ammunition

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
M1 Carbine Load Development hammonje Steel and Wood 36 January 1st, 2014 09:46 AM
Remembering the Brave- Eastern Armed Forces Memorial Match Drmsparks Rifle Competition 1 May 12th, 2010 01:45 PM
Load Developement for 600 yds. Douglas Ammunition 17 March 4th, 2010 10:15 PM
Opinions on Load Versus Rifle Wear ceesthadees Ammunition 3 April 5th, 2009 06:45 PM
M14 150 gr load Seabreeze133 Ammunition 1 December 9th, 2007 07:39 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List