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Wayne Machine, Inc. M14 magazine

This is a discussion on Wayne Machine, Inc. M14 magazine within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; These photos and associated correspondence from Wayne Machine, Inc. were supplied to me. As you can see, Wayne Machine does not put three dimples next ...


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Old September 4th, 2006, 08:38 AM   #1
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Post Wayne Machine, Inc. M14 magazine

These photos and associated correspondence from Wayne Machine, Inc. were supplied to me. As you can see, Wayne Machine does not put three dimples next to the catch slot and they do not use three dimples on the latch plate. So, WMI is NOT the source of the fake "GI" magazines.

The minimum quantity WMI will export is 3000 units at $5.30 each with the American importer supplying all the proper paperwork necessary. Also, WMI states the Taiwan Army itself used T57 magazines with a phosphate coating finish.

If I understand elvis_is_dead correctly, I agree with him. The fake "GI" magazines are not being exported. They are home grown.

WMI M14 Magazine Assembly - Right Side View



WMI M14 Magazine - Catch Slot View



WMI M14 Magazine Assembly - Top View



WMI M14 Magazine - Latch Plate View



WMI M14 Magazine - Right Side View 2


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Old September 4th, 2006, 08:42 AM   #2
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Would that be imported, sir?

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Old September 4th, 2006, 09:02 AM   #3
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The magazine in the photos was not imported. It is in the possession of Wayne Machine, Inc.

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Old September 4th, 2006, 10:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Different
These photos and associated correspondence from Wayne Machine, Inc. were supplied to me. As you can see, Wayne Machine does not put three dimples next to the catch slot and they do not use three dimples on the latch plate. So, WMI is NOT the source of the fake "GI" magazines.
Great pictures, thanks. A worthy addition to the magazine ID guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Different
The minimum quantity WMI will export is 3000 units at $5.30 each with the American importer supplying all the proper paperwork necessary. Also, WMI states the Taiwan Army itself used T57 magazines with a phosphate coating finish.
Interesting. It's very possible then that the blued original legit preban T57 magazines were not really "Taiwan Military Surplus" and were ordered/contracted as commercial magazines for export ot the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Different
If I understand elvis_is_dead correctly, I agree with him. The fake "GI" magazines are not being exported. They are home grown.
I don't know about the fake T57 mags, but tons of the fake W, OM, and Slash M mags share a common spotweld pattern with two commercially sold brands. In addition, they shared the same non standard radius of the feeding cutout on the front spine of the magazine. None of the products from this company that I've seen had country of origin stickers so my best guess is that they are made here.

I don't know where the current crop of fake T57 mags are coming from. But I don't think that they are built on the same line as the two commercial ones I just mentioned, the WMI line, the Norinco/Polytech line, and surely not the CMI line.

Hell Lee, who's left?

Oh, checkout the attached picture of one of the original preban T57 magazines and compare it to your posting. I think that it's safe to guess who built it.

nolan

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Old September 4th, 2006, 11:06 AM   #5
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Lee, I just had a thought. If the Taiwan Govt became involved with the M14/T57 in 1968 or so and WMI fired up in 1979, then where did the Taiwan military get their magazines from between 1968 and 1979?

Either they were contracting them to companies here in the US or there is or was another source for magazines in Taiwan. There's not a chance in hell that they would have been getting them from a source in mainland China back then, or today for that matter.

We're missing something here...

nolan

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Old September 4th, 2006, 11:36 AM   #6
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Nolan,

Yes, WMI started up in 1979. According to Stevens, the Taiwanese did not receiver the machinery to produce the flash suppressors and the magazines from what they bought from the U. S. government in 1968. The State Arsenal of the Republic of China is the entity that received the Harrington & Richardson M14 project equipment and manufactured the T57 rifles. The State Arsenal of the Republic of China had the drawings and specifications from Uncle Sugar to make all the M14 parts as well. After production had started, they even simplified the rear sight assembly.

The State Arsenal of the Republic of China was delayed until late 1969 in producing the T57 rifle but they did overcome the flash suppressor and magazine manufacturing problem. How did they do it? Most likely, they purchased the shears, press brakes and spring forming machinery from the open market and installed it at the State Arsenal.

References: 1) U.S. RIFLE M14: from John Garand to the M21 Revised Second Edition by R. Blake Stevens and 2) The Black Rifle M16 Retrospective by R. Blake Stevens and Edward C. Ezell.

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Old September 4th, 2006, 01:24 PM   #7
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One thing I would like to add. Just because it is not Wayne making the current repops, that does not mean they have to be made here.

There are dozens of countries, all over the world, making "GI Type" surplus items. Remember the fake packaging would have made it easy to import these during the ban. I am not closed minded that they are being made here, I just doubt it. If I recall somebody mentioned that these fakes can be purchased as cheap as $8.00, if you know where to go? That leaves out American production.

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Old September 4th, 2006, 03:32 PM   #8
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" If I understand elvis_is_dead correctly, I agree with him. The fake "GI" magazines are not being exported. They are home grown."

I thought that you mean imported, instead of exported, Lee. Sorry.

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Old September 5th, 2006, 06:05 PM   #9
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Do these fakes look kinda like this one in the picture that I attached ??

Its a wild guess of mine but the AIA M10 Enfield uses a magazine in the same shape of the M14 magazine but with a smaller latch plate from what I've read. So maybe the same tooling was used to make both with a small change in the design ??

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Old September 5th, 2006, 06:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri
Do these fakes look kinda like this one in the picture that I attached ??
It may be. The latch plate of the picture you posted doesn't appear to have the four "standard" corner dimples. Do you have more pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri
Its a wild guess of mine but the AIA M10 Enfield uses a magazine in the same shape of the M14 magazine but with a smaller latch plate from what I've read. So maybe the same tooling was used to make both with a small change in the design ?? Dimitri
What the hell is an AIA M10 Enfield? Hold a sec....Never mind, I found a picture of one in 7.62x54R but the mag on it looks like a scaled up AK mag. I couldnt find a picture of one in 7.62x51.

Do you know anyone with one in 7.62 Nato that can shoot some pictures of the magazine?

thanks,
nolan

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Old September 5th, 2006, 06:23 PM   #11
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AIA M10's ARE NOT in 7.62x54mmR. They do come in 7.62x39mm though but thouse use modified AK47 magazines I belive

http://www.aiarms.ca/

They are only being sold in Canada just resently so no one I know has one sorry.

Also they are illegal to import to the US from what I've read when they did try to import them (some "Dealer" samples got through at first though) last year the State Department closed that down because it was found they were comming from Vietnam NOT Australia where this company seems to want people to think they are from

A picture of the complete rifle:



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Old September 5th, 2006, 07:20 PM   #12
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Dimitri,

Say, if you are in the neighborhood of a gun store that sells these rifles...

...and you just 'happened' to have a digital camera with you...

...and 'coincidentally', a few (4) sheets of blank white paper like can be found in any printer tray...

...that 'could' be used as a background for a photo shot...

...and you pull a magazine out of a .308 model of one of these rifles...

...and then set the magazine down on a few (4) sheets of blank white paper on the counter...

...would you mind snapping a few photos and then posting those photos on this site?


Hypothetically speaking, of course.


*************************
My guess is that the current crop of 'Type 57' mags are coming in from Asia. Where exactly? I don't know.

One possibility that did cross my mind (among plenty) was a sweat shop in Vietnam. It certainly is very possible.

No matter how poor or backward the country, there is often sufficient infrastructure to produce a product whose raw materials include sheet metal and wire. Especially when there is small arms maintenance and/or production going on. After all, in order to keep the people down, they must keep the guns running.

Vietnam is an emerging nation in an emerging Asia. Many in the world are happy to do business with Vietnam. And they could act as middle men in order to get the mags into the US.

Interesting. Could be. Could be.

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Old September 5th, 2006, 07:22 PM   #13
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Looks like the fake T57's are from Vietnam...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri
http://www.aiarms.ca/

...last year the State Department closed that down because it was found they were comming from Vietnam NOT Australia where this company seems to want people to think they are from
I thought it was a conversion. Hell, it's a complete new rifle, a copy of a No 4.

"Australian International Arms" yeah right. Australia never adopted, used or built the No.4 Enfield as a service rifle, it's going to be tough to convice people that that's where they are from. Notice that the only contact information is for their distributors and their "About" page is "under construction"...

If they want to sell more of them, offer them in 45-70 or .33 Winchester or something...

Vietnam makes sense as a source for the fake T57 magazines. They ended up with a lot of captured and surrendered M14's when the South lost.

They could have made these magazines twenty years ago. That could explain the old looking packing materials. I'm betting that you solved the mystery of where the fake T57's are coming from Dimitri. I just turned the image of the magazine you posted into a negative and the three spot welds are clear as day.

Coming out of Vietnam, I can see now why they would rather that people thought the magazines were from Taiwan.

many thanks!
nolan

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Old September 5th, 2006, 07:34 PM   #14
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Oswald2001,

Speaking truthfully I'd do it in a heart beat if I had the chance. But both Canadian stores that sell them right now dont have real "storefronts" but are a more online ordering type deal.

Nolan,

I didnt slove anything I just realized there was a "other" source of M14 type magazines that havnt been mentioned.

AIA's rifle in my opinion is a SPORTER rifle not a copy of the No. 4. It uses a Savage style barrel, no stripper clip guide, pre-drilled for scope mounts, and no Bayonet lug! Has as much to do with the original No.4 as a Winchester Pre-64 has with a Mauser 98

As for that website I posted it was made over the summer when they finally got distributers to import them into Canada. They dont have a Australian based website even!

Dimitri

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Old September 5th, 2006, 07:36 PM   #15
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"Vietnam makes sense as a source for the fake T57 magazines. They ended up with a lot of captured and surrendered M14's when the South lost."
**************************
It never occured to me that we left a bunch of M14's in Vietnam. I missed that one completely.
**************************
"They could have made these magazines twenty years ago. That could explain the old looking packing materials."
**************************
Sure could be. It does make sense.
**************************
"I'm betting that you solved the mystery of where the fake T57's are coming from Dimitri. I just turned the image of the magazine you posted into a negative and the three spot welds are clear as day."
**************************
It is looking very likely that you did indeed solve the mystery of the 'Type 57' mags, Dimitri.

Great job!







If you or one your buddies gets a .308 version, it would be cool to get photos of the mag. Especially close ups of the mag latch.

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