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SB Dies

This is a discussion on SB Dies within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; After some problems with some of my reloads, I decided to convert to a Small Base Resizing Die. I was greatly surprised at just how ...


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Old May 18th, 2013, 07:55 PM   #1
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SB Dies

After some problems with some of my reloads, I decided to convert to a Small Base Resizing Die. I was greatly surprised at just how tough it was to press with these dies. I used plenty of lube, but still very tough to press. The nice thing was.....when I ran this SB resized brass through the Wilson gauge, I realized the difference between "fits" and "fits correctly".

Off to the range tomorrow to see if this doesn't correct some of my feeding and extraction problems---Wish me luck.

Bob

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Old May 18th, 2013, 08:05 PM   #2
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Good luck. It should solve your problems. You didn't say what type of lube that you're using, but try Imperial Sizing Wax. It's the best stuff around for anything to do with case sizing/forming.

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Old May 18th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #3
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Good luck. It should solve your problems. You didn't say what type of lube that you're using, but try Imperial Sizing Wax. It's the best stuff around for anything to do with case sizing/forming.
Thanks Mike, I will look for it. AT the moment I am using Hornady's case lube. It seems to work ok, but I noticed that I am going to need to clean my resizing die---it has black goo seeping out the top of it after 150 case resizings; Maybe I am using to much lube?

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Old May 18th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #4
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Agree with the Imperial sizing wax, best thing I have found on the market. One idea for your sizing, I run my casings through the

standard FL sizing die THEN the SB body die (Redding dies). I know this is an extra step but it really runs smooth and the lube is already

on the case. Give that a try and see if it makes a difference for you....Good luck!

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Old May 18th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #5
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Agree with the Imperial sizing wax, best thing I have found on the market. One idea for your sizing, I run my casings through the

standard FL sizing die THEN the SB body die (Redding dies). I know this is an extra step but it really runs smooth and the lube is already

on the case. Give that a try and see if it makes a difference for you....Good luck!
Thanks and good idea.

One thing I noticed.......I ended up rejecting 5 or 6 cases because the shoulders were "rounded". They just didn't look right to me. I am not sure what caused this, but it just didn't look right. If someone has an explanation, I would love to hear it.

Thanks,

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Old May 18th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #6
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I had the same problem at the range today that you experienced. Some of my reloads wouldn't feed. I think SB dies are in my near future as well.

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Old May 18th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #7
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When you reload the same caliber for multiple gas guns, the SB dies are the way to go. They produce a superior general purpose reload.

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Old May 19th, 2013, 05:47 AM   #8
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Thanks and good idea.

One thing I noticed.......I ended up rejecting 5 or 6 cases because the shoulders were "rounded". They just didn't look right to me. I am not sure what caused this, but it just didn't look right. If someone has an explanation, I would love to hear it.

Thanks,
I'd put my money on not enough lube on the neck expander button, causing too much friction as it comes out of the case neck and pulling on the neck upwards and thus "rounding" the shoulders. You have to lube the inside of the case necks too. I just wipe some sizing wax over the case mouth and it seems to be sufficient.

As far as the "black goo", I think that you're correct in your assessment of too much lube, especially if you're using a lanolin based lube and haven't cleaned the inside of the die every so often. That's one of the beauties of the Imperial product, it takes very little to work, and you don't have an excessive build up with which to contend when either cleaning dies or wiping the cases after sizing.

Also the advice about using a standard set of FL dies first, then the SB dies is good, especially if you're using once fired cases from .mil sources that may have been fired through a machine gun, such as a SAW or an M60/240. I have a literal boat load of that stuff in both 5.56 and 7.62, and it requires extra steps to make it right.

Again, good luck, and enjoy yourself.

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Old May 19th, 2013, 06:03 AM   #9
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All the things said above put simply.

I use RCBS SB Dies and Mink oil. I know there are better lubes out there but it is working for me.
When you lube (with any lube) do not lube the shoulder it will be deformed.
Do not over lube the case it will just gum up the die and dent the shoulders.
The SB Dies will help but you still need to make sure the shoulder set back is correct with a Gauge.
When they fit the gauge and the Gun is clean all the bad things go away.
This I can promise
PS
When you get to the bullet seating stage make sure the die is not crimping. When this step is done incorrectly a slight bulge at the crimp will stop an otherwise good round from feeding.

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Old May 19th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #10
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In 30+ years of reloading for 3 M1As, 5 Garands, and countless ARs, SKS, AKs, etc., Ive never had to use a SB sizer. I must have gotten lucky and didnt aquire a rifle with an out of spec chamber, too tight of headspace, etc.. I only know of one Gent in my Service rifle league who uses one (out of +/- 70 guys). And yes, the dicussion has come up more than once, between the members. Are small base dies really needed? Hmmmmm....

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Old May 19th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #11
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Is my 23 years of reloading I only used SB dies in AR and Semi-Auto Rifles. Never any issues i did not cause my self. Who am I to argue with RCBS.
A SB Die won't hurt even if you have a standard chamber. I don't think the thousands of re-loaders out there all have out of spec chambers.
I would like someone with a proven load to make ammo on both types of dies and do a shoot off to see what size has the edge if any.

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Old May 19th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #12
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SUCCESS---Yeah,---but wasn't what I thought; at least not entirely.

So, I loaded up about 150 rounds using the SB die yesterday and this morning. I learned a lot about reloading through this process and from many of you. Unfortunately, I got out to the range this afternoon and all of the same problems resurfaced. Failure to eject, some failures to feed but no failures to fire this time.

I quickly figured out that the failures to feed were due to some cheap magazines I purchased---switched those out with my SA mags and that problem was solved.

I also had a suspicion that my gas cylinder was not properly aligned with the barrel port. Even after I had shimmed it, I wasn't completely convinced that everything was aligned correctly.

The reason I shimmed in the first place is that the gas lock didn't index correctly, but when I shimmed them , I placed the shims between the barrel hub and the gas cylinder--this moved the gas cylinder out just a tad, but the gas lock indexed correctly at this point. Now, I could still run a small hex wrench all the way through the barrel, but I am thinking that the ports were only partially aligned allowing the wrench through them but not aligned well enough to allow the full function of the gas system.

After my failures at the range today, I decided to move the shims to the front of the gas system between the gas tube and the gas lock and all of the sudden, the beast ran like a champ with both my hand loads and a variety of milsup ammo. I ran another 100 rounds through it with zero failures.

Now I can get back to the business of accurizeing and getting my scope zeroed.

Thanks to all for your help and guidance.

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Old May 20th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwilli View Post
After some problems with some of my reloads, I decided to convert to a Small Base Resizing Die. I was greatly surprised at just how tough it was to press with these dies. I used plenty of lube, but still very tough to press. The nice thing was.....when I ran this SB resized brass through the Wilson gauge, I realized the difference between "fits" and "fits correctly".

Off to the range tomorrow to see if this doesn't correct some of my feeding and extraction problems---Wish me luck.

Bob
Bob, I've been pimping Forster's lube for months now and I'll do it again. I recently sized 1000 LC Nato cases using Forster Lube with an SB die and I was amazed at how easy it was. Literally, amazed. I use to use Imperial Wax, but no more.

Sizing the LC Nato with Forster Lube was ALMOST as easy as sizing new Winchester commercial brass. The die runs smoothly, no hesitation, no need to crank on the handle and the cases would come out very consistently sized with only a single pass.

Use a cotton swab to apply the lube and smear it with your fingers. Keep it off the shoulders to avoid dents. Try it, you'll love it.

Thanks from budster
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Old May 20th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #14
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Did you notice your Sizing Die setting for Comm Brass is slightly different than your setting for Lake City? I had to adjust my Die to get the same Wilson case Gauge reading between LC and Win,Rem etc. It could be my Lube even if i size them twice they need a little more at the shoulder.

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Old May 20th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #15
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SB Die

After 27 + years of reloading, I finally had to get a SB Die for 30.06.
Seems I got a new Barrel on my Match 30.06, M1 with a Kreiger Stainless, 4 Groove, but boy this $400.00 tube in the Chamber is tight, oh it shoots good also.
I had been using Dillon Dies, then switched to Hornady New Dimension, and I shoot them in mutiple Rifles w/o a problem, till this new Barrel.
I still use a regular Die for my .223, and .308,
I use Imperial, plus Dillon pump spray, I have a Dillon press, and I'm able to access the Dies by pulling the pins, and I lube the inside of the Die, with a Qtip several times when I start seems to help.

Out

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