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300 Blackout Questions Again...

This is a discussion on 300 Blackout Questions Again... within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Good morning to all, Well the day has finally come and I have completed my .300 Blackout Build. It actually was one of the easier ...


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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #1
Lifer
 
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Question 300 Blackout Questions Again...

Good morning to all,

Well the day has finally come and I have completed my .300 Blackout Build. It actually was one of the easier builds I have done, especially with the VLTOR VIS-3 monolithic upper. I thought it would be a pain in the ass to install the barrel, but it came with its own little barrel tool and nut. I didn't even have to line the gas tube up in the barrel nut like you have to do with most free float handguards.

Now I am seriously going crazy trying to find SAFE load data. Right now I am not interested in sub-sonic loads, as that will come later and with more experience reloading this cartridge. I am only concerned with supersonic loads for now. I have been scouring the internet and have found a ton of different data. The most common loads I have been seeing is heavy bullets (180-220) and most seem to be using H110 pistol powder?? Im guessing because of limited case volume?

Anyways, I guess I will just have to buy a few new reloading manuals, like Sierra, Hornady, Nosler...etc. Does anyone have any of the newest books? I don't want to buy a book only to find that it still doesn't have load data for the 300blk. I asked this question about a few days ago, but didn't get but one good response with some data.

I am reaching out to those of you who have a 300blk and wanted to know what your loading and how it works. I am running a Daniel Defense 1:8 twist 16" barrel. I have a ton of 165grain Sierra Game King BTHPs, but may trade them for 220 grain bullets. I also am not really concwerned with shooting over 100-150 yards and I need Hog Heqad sized accuracy. Help would be greatly appreciated. I would also like to know what your trimming cases to, COAL and what problems you have encountered with certain loads. I just want a good consistent load that cycles reliably.

Now for some pictures. Here are some pictures of the build. I took them with my phone so they are not that great, but I will be taking more professional photos later this week.







And here is my new EOTech:




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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:07 AM   #2
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Why not access Hodgdon, Accurate Arms, and any of the other load-data websites available online? I have a couple of PDF files of load data for the 300 AAC if you want them. They are also accessible at the online sights, and cover 110 gr on up to subsonic 230 gr's, with various powders......

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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #3
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Try the "search" thing, this was asked just last week.
http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=135
Or "google" 300 Whisper

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Old November 14th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #4
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Brassmagnet,

I have accessed many of the sites and they do have some information. Problem is, Hodgdon for example goes from 130gr to 200+ grain with no info in between. When I called Hodgdon yesterday, the guy who supposedly wrote the info said they would not allow him to test or report info for certain grain weight bullets. Then when I asked for suggestions, he told me that he couldn't give info that was not listed. Then told me to search local forums for info. Was not a very nice guy.


Baddog0302,

No need to be rude or condesending. I have searched, just have not found exactly what I am looking for yet. There is a ton of info on the cartridge, just seems like it's missing the info I need for the grain weight of bulle I want to use. Not only that, but I also asked for other opinions of what they like and use. Also, i cansee you have 25 posts here, M14forums prides itself on not having people talking down to others. Thanks for the link though...

-Sapp

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Old November 14th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #5
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Sapp, did you get the e-mail I sent you??

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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #6
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See if this helps.....I can send a cleared file (PDF) if you get me an email address.


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Old November 14th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #7
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Yes, Phil I got the email but it was too blurry to read. I meant to email you to let you know, but I got busy. Brassmagnet, that helped a lot! But still nothing for 165s!

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Old November 14th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #8
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I built my 300 with the intent of making major power factor to shoot against the .223 AR's shooting minor. I had my barrel made in 1/10 twist and 18" length. I've gotten 2,600 fps with 145 gr bullets using LIL GUN powder, but my loadings are right at what I'd consider to be the limit. I actually had to back off the load because I was seeing pressure signs in my primers.

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Old November 16th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #9
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I just got a copy of Hornady's 9th edition reloading manual and it has the blackout data for the 165 gr bullet.

The rifle they used was a 16" barreled S&W AR so the data should be pretty accurate for your rifle. The more common powders that they used were A2400, N110, LIL' GUN, W296, H110, IMR 4227, N120, A1680. The charge weights are mostly in the range of 11gr - 15gr with velocities of 1400fps - 1700fps.

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Old November 16th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #10
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Thank you for the information Rammac. Do you think there would be a big difference between the Hornady 165's and the Sierra 165's? I have a ton of Sierra 165's, so I was thinking I could load per Hornady's data....I just didn't know if the different BC and bullet shape would make an unsafe difference? I will be buying the Hornady 9th edition tomorrow.

-Sapp

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Old November 16th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #11
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I have only worked up loads with 150 pulled fmj bullets. I had luck with 16.5 grains of H110. 19 grains started blowing primers. With A1680 17-18 grains worked.

Proceed with caution and at your own risk but with those two powders you cant put enough in the case to be "dangerous". 18-20grs is compressed.

With 300BLK still relatively new you will need to work up a reliable load due to barrel length, gas system, and gas port size.

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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAPPNASTY View Post
Thank you for the information Rammac. Do you think there would be a big difference between the Hornady 165's and the Sierra 165's? I have a ton of Sierra 165's, so I was thinking I could load per Hornady's data....I just didn't know if the different BC and bullet shape would make an unsafe difference? I will be buying the Hornady 9th edition tomorrow.

-Sapp
As far as chamber pressure goes bullet brand wont matter as long as they weigh the same.

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Old November 17th, 2012, 01:05 AM   #13
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"As far as chamber pressure goes bullet brand wont matter as long as they weigh the same."

I know that I'm just a newb here and I'm not trying to start anything, but that statement isn't only wrong, it's dangerous, especially in a case as small as the Blackout. I'll grant that the substitution proposed by SAPPNASTY isn't likely to cause major issues as long as he does another work up, but a blanket statement like that might cause serious problems for an inexperienced handloader that took it too literally.

Just look up at the Western Powder data for Accurate 4100 posted above by brassmagnet.

It shows a 130 grain Barnes Tipped Triple Shock X bullet with a maximum load of 16 grains for a muzzle velocity of 1998 fps and a chamber pressure of 54,852 psi.

The next row down shows a 150 grain SMK with a max load of 17 grains, a muzzle velocity of 2012 fps and chamber pressure of 54,635 psi.

+ 20 grains of bullet weight.
+ One full grain of powder
= 217 psi LESS chamber pressure.

I submit that if you load up a 150 grain Barnes Triple Shock in a .300 Blackout, using data for a 150 grain MatchKing, you'd better stand behind a wall and pull the trigger with a looonnnggg string.

The Barnes all copper bullets may be one of the more extreme examples, but there are all sorts of things that can cause unpleasant surprises when you start substituting bullets taking only their weight into account.
Jacket material.
Core material.
Bearing length.
Bullet coatings.

@ SAPPNASTY, I wouldn't anticipate any problems from your proposed substitution, just drop your load 10% and work it back up as you would with any component change, UNLESS you're working with H110 or W296, Hodgdon recommends not dropping loads more than 3% with those powders.

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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampman View Post
I know that I'm just a newb here and I'm not trying to start anything, but that statement isn't only wrong, it's dangerous, especially in a case as small as the Blackout. I'll grant that the substitution proposed by SAPPNASTY isn't likely to cause major issues as long as he does another work up, but a blanket statement like that might cause serious problems for an inexperienced handloader that took it too literally.

Just look up at the Western Powder data for Accurate 4100 posted above by brassmagnet.

It shows a 130 grain Barnes Tipped Triple Shock X bullet with a maximum load of 16 grains for a muzzle velocity of 1998 fps and a chamber pressure of 54,852 psi.

The next row down shows a 150 grain SMK with a max load of 17 grains, a muzzle velocity of 2012 fps and chamber pressure of 54,635 psi.

+ 20 grains of bullet weight.
+ One full grain of powder
= 217 psi LESS chamber pressure.

I submit that if you load up a 150 grain Barnes Triple Shock in a .300 Blackout, using data for a 150 grain MatchKing, you'd better stand behind a wall and pull the trigger with a looonnnggg string.

The Barnes all copper bullets may be one of the more extreme examples, but there are all sorts of things that can cause unpleasant surprises when you start substituting bullets taking only their weight into account.
Jacket material.
Core material.
Bearing length.
Bullet coatings.

@ SAPPNASTY, I wouldn't anticipate any problems from your proposed substitution, just drop your load 10% and work it back up as you would with any component change, UNLESS you're working with H110 or W296, Hodgdon recommends not dropping loads more than 3% with those powders.
Sorry but your comment was offensive, if you knew anything about me you would realize realize that I don't tell anybody anything that is dangerous when it comes to reloading.

Your comment is out of perspective, yes there can be some differences (caused by dimensional differences that create differences in seating depth and not bullet weight) but they will be well within the normal pressure deviation of any standard cartridge.

For example

A .308 using a 168gr SMK in a Lapua case with an OAL of 2.80" and charged with 43gr of IMR 4895 will produce about 49222 psi.

Changing to a Speer 168gr BTHP will change the pressure to about 50,119 psi.

The pressure change was 897 psi. This calculated pressure change is so small that it could easily be overshadowed by pressure changes due to environmental conditions and variations in cartridge assembly but more than likely the differences are due to the dimensional differences of the bullet themselves.

I ran some numbers through QuickLoad (internal ballistics software) for the .308 Win and the .300 Blackout (the database did not have a .300 Blackout so I created one). In both cases the pressures do change due to the bullet's dimensional changes (more bullet inside the case reduces usable volume and pressures go up).

The .300 Blackout shows pressure variations that are just about twice that of the .308 Win cartridge and that's due to the greater effect that the bullet volume has on the smaller case volume of the Blackout. Using the powder load with the highest pressure and greatest powder charge weight (19.4gr of Accurate 1680 according to the Hornady 9th edition reloading manual), showed about 6000 psi variation between five major 168gr bullet brands. But the highest pressure was just at the max SAAMI limit (55,000 psi) specified for the Blackout cartridge. The lowest pressure was under 50,000 psi (Hornday's NM bullet produced the highest pressure while Nosler's CC bullet produced the least).

That means that in the worst case scenario, if you use the largest recommened powder charge of the powder with the greatest pressure, topped off with the bullet that creates the highest pressure, you will only just reach the SAAMI max for chamber pressure. All other 168gr bullets with that same powder charge weight will produce chamber pressures less than the SAAMI max.

Your assumption that I am not being responsible is way off the mark, maybe you should have phrased your remark as a question rather than an assumption that I didn't do my homework. As you said, you are new here and you need to realize that there are a lot of people on this forum that have backgrounds and experience that allow them to make comments that might seem flippant but in reality it is just a reflection of the fact that we feel comfortable with the people we are addressing and don't feel a need to justify every detail. I've dealt with Sapp enough that I'm sure he knows I wouldn't have made the comment that I did without checking it for accuracy.

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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quickload

Ram, QL does include a 300-221 (300 Whisper).

Is that not what you want?

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