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Reloading/handloading for the M1 Garand and M14/M1A

This is a discussion on Reloading/handloading for the M1 Garand and M14/M1A within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Given the prices of .308 and .30-06 ammunition, I finally bit the bullet and decided to invest in some RCBS reloading/handloading apparatus. I seem to ...


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Old April 4th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #1
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Reloading/handloading for the M1 Garand and M14/M1A

Given the prices of .308 and .30-06 ammunition, I finally bit the bullet and decided to invest in some RCBS reloading/handloading apparatus. I seem to be getting the hang of things, as I have properly decapped, cleaned, sized, and trimmed some .308 brass I had lying around. I have also gotten the hang of priming cases.

Unfortunately, I was foolish enough to follow the advice of some guy that claimed he knew about reloading (maybe for civilian bolt-action guns, but not for self-loading service rifles) at a sporting goods store. Do not get me wrong, as my RCBS reloading apparatus and Lyman tumbler work well, but in spite of specifically telling him that I had the M1 Garand and M1A/M14 in mind when it came to reloading and handloading, he talked me into buying some Federal Match 210M large rifle primers and some Hodgdon H4350 powder to use for my tasks at hand.

I was busy with some work related studying, so around a month elapsed before I finally got this stuff set up. I did some research, and some claim that the Federal 210M primers have a risk for slamfires, while others say they do not have problems with them. Since I am new to reloading/handloading, I decided to play it safe and use CCI #34 primers to start out with for the M1 and M1A. I then did some research regarding the H4350 powder, as I did not see it in my Speer or Nosler reloading books for the types of loads I had in mind, and people seem to say that this powder burns too slowly for use in an M1 or an M14.

In spite of the mistakes I have made here, I believe I can still make use of the Federal 210M primers and the Hodgdon H4350 powder, as I recently picked up a Chilean Mauser (Model 1912) chambered in 7X57mm Mauser, and it seems that the H4350 would work well in such a bolt-action rifle, so perhaps I can use this powder and the Federal 210M primers for bolt-action rifles (I need to pick up some 7X57mm dies, a shell holder, some brass, and some bullets as well).

I have read that the M1 Garand can be damaged by certain commercial loads, so what kind of .30-06 load can I make that is safe to use in the M1 Garand (I am going to play it safe and assume that a good deal of the load data in my books would be too hot for an M1 Garand)? Is there a specific powder that any of you recommend that I could use for both an M1 Garand and a Springfield Armory M1A?

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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #2
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Stick with bullets of 180 grains or less.

I use IMR 4895 but there are other powders with similar burn rates that work well in the M1 Garand.

Some people use IMR3031, Winchester 748, Varget and there are others that will work.

Lately I've been using the CCI military grade primers but for many years I used the standard CCI large rifle primers with zero issues.

Make sure you keep your brass from getting too long (trim cases as/when needed). Full length resize the cases. Insure the primers seat completely (none sticking out of the primer pocket).

Make sure the bullets are seated correctly (not touching the lands of the rifling but still feeding from the clip to the chamber.

A little time/effort and you can work up some good loads for your rifle. Mine are considered a little "light" but they sure do shoot good. I've had folks ask my if my rifle has a "match" barrel but its just a regular CMP M1 (rack grade Greek return) that was made in 1944 at Springfield Armory and had a new barrel put on it (LMR 53).

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Old April 4th, 2012, 06:31 PM   #3
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As a general rule for your M1 and M1a powders in the burning rates of IMR3031(fast) and IMR4064(slower) work well, I also use Varget some feel that it is slower than IMR4064 I feel that there close enough.

The gun store expert sold you on some IMR4350, while its a good powder you are correct its better used in bolt guns.

Primers are a debate all there own, use whatever you have handy thats standard large rifle, mag primers are best used with mag loadings. I feel safe telling you this incase you didn't know clean your primer pockets good and seat your primer below flush. Mil-spec brass needs too have there primer crimp removed or swaged out before a primer can be slipped in commercial cases this is not needed, mil-spec case tend too live a longer case life than commercial cases in the M rifles.

Yes, there are commercial loads that can hurt the M1-M1a I can't list them all it would take all day, Federal and Hornaday have on some of there boxed ammo labled Garand and M1a safe.

With both rifles try too use bullet weights less than 180grs and don't try too push them too hyper active speeds, easy does it.

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Old April 4th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #4
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The Hornady reloading manual has a separate section for .308 "Service Rifles". In general, reloading .308 Winchester is very straightforward and easy. However, there are some things you need to understand specific to reloading for the M-14/M1A. Phil hit the high points, but it's worth getting the Hornady manual just for that section. Good book anyway. Just checked and there's a separate section specifically for the M1 Garand as well.

This download is also useful:
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

Zediker has strong opinions, but I don't think he's "wrong" about anything.

Did this brilliant gun store worker sell you a set of check weights? If not, please get a set and use them every time you hand load. After zeroing the scale, weigh a combo of weights as close to your intended charge as possible.

The other indispensable accessory that doesn't get mentioned sometimes is a case gauge from Wilson (or Lyman IIRC). It lets you verify the neck length and shoulder position of a case really quickly.

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Old April 4th, 2012, 10:10 PM   #5
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I've loaded thousands of rouns of ammo with commercial (federal, Wincheater) primers with absolutely no issues.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a Garand to suffer a slam fire if the receiver is in spec. Yes, impossible. Note I said "in spec". Commercial M14 clones, may not be in spec regarding the receiver bridge. Lots of threads on that.

The KEY is you MUST (always...) make sure your primers are seated BELOW the surface of the head of the case. Otherwise a slam fire is possible even with an in-spec Garand.

As for powders, 4064 and 4895 are all I use.

JWB

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Old April 4th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #6
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Ok...I have more experience with 30-06 in my Beretta Garand than 7.62 in an M1A...but I own both so here goes...You can use gi brass as some suggest (LC, HXP,,etc) but alot of it is ageing (especially 30-06) by this point so I'd suggest new winchester brass trimmed to 2.494 in 30-06 (if I remember correctly) and 2.005 in 7.62. Win Large rifle or CCI #34 worked for me...keep in mind that #34's are slightly hotter than the norm. As the previous member said keep the primers fully seated! (hand priming units help as they provide sensitive "feel." As far as bullets, I think Hornady A-Max 168's are...for the price...the best thing out there for an accuracy bullet. Use only IMR or Hogdon 4895...I can't give you specifics... liability and all...I believe the newer hornady manuals have a Garand section...consult it for charge weight specifics for Garand Reloading...Good Luck...I'm sure it wont take long to get a good load worked up! -JK

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Old April 4th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #7
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I have recently decided to do all my loading (.223/.308/.30-06) with H4895. I have been using it in the Garand and M1A for some time. I also like CCI primers. For bullets I generally shoot Hornady 150 FMJBTw/C or 168 SMKs.

I load on a single station which is pretty time consuming. I finally ordered a Giraud case trimmer. That should really help speed up the process.

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Old April 5th, 2012, 01:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Make sure the bullets are seated correctly (not touching the lands of the rifling but still feeding from the clip to the chamber.

A little time/effort and you can work up some good loads for your rifle. Mine are considered a little "light" but they sure do shoot good. I've had folks ask my if my rifle has a "match" barrel but its just a regular CMP M1 (rack grade Greek return) that was made in 1944 at Springfield Armory and had a new barrel put on it (LMR 53).
I will keep this in mind as well. Perhaps I will load a single .308 round into one of my M14 mags just to see how it feeds, fires, etc. when I first fire my reloads in my M1A to be safe. After a few rounds like that, I will go on to use fully loaded M14 mags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
As a general rule for your M1 and M1a powders in the burning rates of IMR3031(fast) and IMR4064(slower) work well, I also use Varget some feel that it is slower than IMR4064 I feel that there close enough.
I will keep these types of powder in mind.

Quote:
The gun store expert sold you on some IMR4350, while its a good powder you are correct its better used in bolt guns.
I should have some use for this powder in the near future, as I finally got around to ordering some 7X57mm Mauser dies, brass, and bullets. At least I have been able to salvage the situation caused by the bad advice of an "expert" I encountered at that sporting goods store.

Quote:
Primers are a debate all there own, use whatever you have handy thats standard large rifle, mag primers are best used with mag loadings. I feel safe telling you this incase you didn't know clean your primer pockets good and seat your primer below flush. Mil-spec brass needs too have there primer crimp removed or swaged out before a primer can be slipped in commercial cases this is not needed, mil-spec case tend too live a longer case life than commercial cases in the M rifles.
I cleaned out the primer pockets on the .308 brass I had lying about. The brass in question is Federal .308, so I have not had to deal with primer crimps, but I will keep the bit about primer crimps in mind, as I have a bit of Greek HXP .30-06 brass I have managed to collect as well.

Quote:
Yes, there are commercial loads that can hurt the M1-M1a I can't list them all it would take all day, Federal and Hornaday have on some of there boxed ammo labled Garand and M1a safe.
I have seen such boxes of ammunition before. I will also do more research on such loads.

Quote:
With both rifles try too use bullet weights less than 180grs and don't try too push them too hyper active speeds, easy does it.
I will keep this in mind. The heaviest bullets I have on hand are some 168 grain Sierra Match Kings.

Quote:
The Hornady reloading manual has a separate section for .308 "Service Rifles". In general, reloading .308 Winchester is very straightforward and easy. However, there are some things you need to understand specific to reloading for the M-14/M1A. Phil hit the high points, but it's worth getting the Hornady manual just for that section. Good book anyway. Just checked and there's a separate section specifically for the M1 Garand as well.

This download is also useful:
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

Zediker has strong opinions, but I don't think he's "wrong" about anything.
Many thanks. I just downloaded that information, and it looks like it will prove to be most valuable.

Quote:
Did this brilliant gun store worker sell you a set of check weights? If not, please get a set and use them every time you hand load. After zeroing the scale, weigh a combo of weights as close to your intended charge as possible.
He did not do as such, and I am starting to wonder if this guy's definition of reloading is ejecting an empty magazine from a gun and inserting a full magazine. I do have some gift cards I need to use, so I will be sure to pick some of these up along with some suitable powder for my needs.

Quote:
The other indispensable accessory that doesn't get mentioned sometimes is a case gauge from Wilson (or Lyman IIRC). It lets you verify the neck length and shoulder position of a case really quickly.
I do not currently have a case gauge, but I will sniff this out as well (I only possess a dial caliper I have been using to check overall case length).

Quote:
I've loaded thousands of rouns of ammo with commercial (federal, Wincheater) primers with absolutely no issues.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a Garand to suffer a slam fire if the receiver is in spec. Yes, impossible. Note I said "in spec". Commercial M14 clones, may not be in spec regarding the receiver bridge. Lots of threads on that.
I will keep this in mind for future reference. I may as well use the CCI #34 primers I have since I am new and have 950 of them left (I loaded 50 cases with primers)

Quote:
The KEY is you MUST (always...) make sure your primers are seated BELOW the surface of the head of the case. Otherwise a slam fire is possible even with an in-spec Garand.
It looks like the primers I have seated via my RCBS hand priming tool are below the surface of the head of the case so far.

Quote:
As for powders, 4064 and 4895 are all I use.

JWB
I will keep such powders in mind. I will have to see which of these powders are in stock the next time I visit a sporting goods store.

Quote:
I have recently decided to do all my loading (.223/.308/.30-06) with H4895. I have been using it in the Garand and M1A for some time. I also like CCI primers. For bullets I generally shoot Hornady 150 FMJBTw/C or 168 SMKs.
I currently possess both of these bullets. I will see how they perform.

Quote:
I load on a single station which is pretty time consuming. I finally ordered a Giraud case trimmer. That should really help speed up the process.
I use a single stage press as well (RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme press), but in spite of the time consuming process, reloading will prove to be worth it. I will also lose all incentive to use some of the cheaper ammunition I have used in my M1A (German surplus, Malaysian surplus, Pakistani surplus, Wolf/Herter's .308). My RCBS case trimmer has proven itself to be useful so far.

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Old April 5th, 2012, 03:17 AM   #9
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One of the safest and best working powders is IMR-4064. It is not temperature sensitive. It is case-filling, making it difficult to load too much powder. It's not easy to measure with a powder measure though. H-4895 might be my second choice for both cartridges. It is slightly faster than IMR-4895 but it is less position sensitive and less temperature sensitive than IMR-4895. I've had good results with IMR-4895 in 308 but better results with IMR-4064 and H-4895 in 30-06. Varget acts like IMR-4895 in 30-06 but acts as a slower powder than IMR-4064 in 308. It's hard to get a "bad" load with IMR-4064 in either cartridge. IMR-4064 may require weighing each charge or maybe using one of the Lee disk powder measures. Some people like them and some people hate them. IMR-4064 doesn't usually meter well in the other powder measures but those are easier to use than the Lee disk type. I have had some success with W-748 ball powder but I wouldn't start out with it. It works best when used with the lighter weight bullets in the 147 - 155 grain range. I try to get the CCI #34 mil-spec primers but when I can't I get Remington 9 1/2 primers.

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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:59 AM   #10
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One thing that I didn't understand until recently is that the primer is a very important part of the cartridge and not all primers are created equal.

Specifically, the CCI #34 primers may cause certain powders to run "hotter" (i.e. higher velocity and, by inference, higher pressure). RAMMAC has helped a bunch of guys here out with his ballistic software and his results usually are darned close to actual performance. However, the software predicted significantly lower velocities than what I was getting out of VV N-135 over #34 primers. I still haven't isolated that variable as making the difference, but it's the only one left other than an unusual batch of powder. Also, I recently saw a spreadsheet posted on another forum which showed 4 different primers under 4 different powders. What really struck me was that changing primers had a measurable effect with some powders while other powders seemed less sensitive to primer changes.

The bottom line is that you need to be aware any time you change a variable: primer, brass, powder (even batch to batch), bullet, seating depth (COAL), and, especially, the rifle. Reloading isn't rocket science, but it is scientific in terms of needing to follow clear, methodical procedures and conduct disciplined experiments. If you change a variable, load a few at a reduced charge and make sure the results are what you expect. 9 times out of 10 they will be, but you don't want the 10th time to be with your right-on-the-line .357 self-defense load.

Please forgive me if that comes off as preachy. I am methodical by nature, but still didn't "get" how each of the variables affects the combined outcome and how they can interact in possibly unexpected ways.

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Old April 5th, 2012, 08:23 AM   #11
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With the price of 7.62 climbing and the good stuff starting to become a bit harder to acquire, I'm finally bending to the point that I want to learn how to reload. The question I have, for a beginner in re-loading, what is some good equipment that I would benefit from to start this? Anything in particular that is a must have besides the obvious, casings, bullets, primers and powder? I'm really wanting some good equipment but not having to sell mine and my daughters soul to get it....

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Old April 5th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneDawg View Post
With the price of 7.62 climbing and the good stuff starting to become a bit harder to acquire, I'm finally bending to the point that I want to learn how to reload. The question I have, for a beginner in re-loading, what is some good equipment that I would benefit from to start this? Anything in particular that is a must have besides the obvious, casings, bullets, primers and powder? I'm really wanting some good equipment but not having to sell mine and my daughters soul to get it....
A case length trimmer is a must. Lee makes a cheap one that works well once you figure it out. It's caliber specific but the different gauges for the cutter are cheap. I use an RCBS trim pro with a 3-in-one cutter that trims, chamfers and deburrs. If you don't use something like this you'll need a chamfer/deburring tool. They're cheap.

Some sort of primer pocket reamer and/or cleaner. if you are using military brass, you'll need either a primer pocket swager or a reamer capable of removing the crimp. If you want to get anal/ultimate accuracy you may want a primer flash hole uniformer. I don't use one (see my results below).

Full length resizing die. May be obvious but some are unaware that you must full-length resize for semi-auto rifles.

Some good case lube is a must. I like Imperial Sizing Wax.

A bullet puller. The impact type are about $15.

If you plan to load rifle exclusively, I'd start with a good single stage press.

Some prefer to prime on the press, others prefer one of the hand-priming tools.

You'll want a couple bench blocks to hold/organize casings when prepping/charging etc.

You'll need a good powder scale. the Ohaus/RCBS 5-0-5 or 5-10 is good. I use an old Redding balance scale.

You CAN use the lee powder dippers. However it's much more precise to use a scale and a powder trickler to work up loads in tenths of a grain.

A good powder dispenser saves time. You CAN hand-scoop powder and measure, but it's time-consuming.

You don't NEED a vibratory tumbler (or other case cleaner of your choice) but they are very nice to have. I like my Lyman Turbo 2400. I sift the tumbling media with a dedicated kitchen colander.

A good reloading manual or two. If you're a BEGINNER to reloading, the ABCs of reloading is a good start. If you already have a pretty good concept of the process you may find it unnecessary.


FYI Reloading for bottle-necked rifle rounds is MUCH more complicated than pistol. I started reloading about a year ago with a Lee Classic Turret (highly recommended BTW) kit from Kempf (google it). I've loaded over 5,000 rounds of .45, .40, 9mm, .38, and .380 with great success. However I've only loaded a couple hundred .30-06 so far and I haven't figured out how to make a really accurate load yet (because I'm cheap and am using pulled M80 pills). Rifle reloading is a lot more work.

Good luck. :)

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Old April 5th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #13
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The only thing I might add or maybe repeat for those new to reloading or reloading for the M1 and M1A...

consider the #34 primer as a "magnum" primer during load development. Also keep in mind the thicker web of Milsurp brass reduces case capacity which can increase pressures versus the same load in commercial brass.

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Old April 5th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneDawg View Post
With the price of 7.62 climbing and the good stuff starting to become a bit harder to acquire, I'm finally bending to the point that I want to learn how to reload. The question I have, for a beginner in re-loading, what is some good equipment that I would benefit from to start this? Anything in particular that is a must have besides the obvious, casings, bullets, primers and powder? I'm really wanting some good equipment but not having to sell mine and my daughters soul to get it....
On the INITIAL buy for an entirely new setup I would consider getting one of the "kits" that RCBS, Hornady, LEE, Lyman, and possibly others offer that have most of the startup components EXCEPT the dies right in the box. This helps keep the price down and also keeps you from setting up the first time only to discover you are missing something that is absolutely necessary to get ammo reloaded. After you have gained some experience you can then consider adding various things to this initial setup a bit at a time to get it right where you want it to be. Reloading is a very modular activity and seldom is it necessary to "rebuy" the basic stuff... more often it's just buying dies for the new caliber and otherwise still being set up for the process. In other words, often after the inital "big buy" it's possible to set up for another caliber for not much more money.
...
For all those "starting up" I will point out that despite it appearing that all similar rifles should perform similarly in terms of so much powder, etc., producing so much velocity, this is often NOT true. It is best to at least gain access to if not actually purchase a chronograph and actually verify in your weapons what velocities you are actually getting. I also have found it VERY useful to know what average velocity my "best load" for a particular projectile is producing so that if I have to change gunpowders, etc., I can then go right back to that same average velocity as a possible "sweet spot" for the new powder too. While this doesn't always hold true, it's usually close to the same muzzle velocity for the same exact projectile (all other things being the same...).
Chronographs also help you avoid "wild goose chases". I once had an old lot of IMR4895 that even with a full specified charge would not get a Sierra 168 over 2400 FPS muzzle velocity in a 22" M1-A. All I knew at first was that my M1-A was short stroking about every other round at the match and it was taking a LOT of comeups to get on the target. As the years have passed this kind of "powder lot variation" has become very rare to my knowledge...but if I had not had that chronograph available back then I would have really been scratching my head as to IF it was a rifle problem. WITH the chronograph is was easy to figure it out as a REALLY slow lot of IMR4895. It is these rare events that have happened over the years that have me suggesting chronograph verfication as part of load testing so as to keep others from any unnecessary "wild goose chases" IF something like this was to be going on. You often don't need to own one...but it can pay to know someone else that does. Food for thought......
.....
Read all the reloading manuals you can get access to...in particular the "how to" sections. Many have "tips" that are very useful and it will help you to know what to consider purchasing for YOUR particular goals and expectations. The manuals put out by "bullet companies" often (predictably) just have their own line of projectiles. The ones put out by "gunpowder companies" are often more generic in approach and also more predictably offer lower pressure loadings. For service rifles, this is no handicap as it is often a VERY GOOD idea to be conservative in velocities in this weapons. Often the loadings that produce the best groups are no where near full velocity loadings.
.....
You may wish to get ahold of something like the Zedicker publication "Handloading for Competition" so as to be able to decide what you might want to consider in terms of process changes so that you can produce the ammo quality you want and avoid extra steps that are not likely to benefit you in terms of time spent reloading versus likely improvement in grouping. I like books like these as they are not trying to sell reloading components so there is less emphasis on selling and more on "general information" and this is what new reloader's often really need....more information so they can decide for themselves what they do and don't want or need. These are the kind of books that give you a "jump up" in terms of lots of practical information to consider that otherwise you may take years to acquire "by experience" some of which may be "reinventing the wheel" by repeating things that "look or sound good" but don't work and probably never will.
.....
Once you get the reloading basics down and are confident in yourself and have some kind of reference library built up then it is possible to go online and get the most current loadings from the gunpowder companies online sites. I suggest resisting using these sites as a sole source of reloading data as they lack "how to" and other teaching information which ALL reloaders should have before they start choosing loads.
....
There is a LOT of information about reloading for the various military firearms so it's just a matter of tracking down what is applicable from reliable sources and applying it to see what your own particular specimen(s) perform best with.

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Old April 5th, 2012, 11:24 AM   #15
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Your primers should be just fine. I would suggest that in addition to the steps that you have done with your brass, that you might want to pick up and use a flash hole deburrer and a primer pocket uniformer. Then before you go sizing a lot of cases without knowing exactly the headspace, pick up an RCBS precision mic in the caliber that you are loading. This one tool can save a lot of headaches later on. Cases should be sized 2 to 5 thou shorter than chamber headspace. Almost weekly someone posts to having a problem feeding or extracting. Most I have seen are caused by too long a cartridge headspace caused by the new handloader. The Wilson case guage is handy, but not very precise.

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