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LC brass

This is a discussion on LC brass within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I might add that I am getting dies for four different cartridges. Yup I guess I am going top shelf, I am going to get ...


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Old March 8th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #31
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I might add that I am getting dies for four different cartridges. Yup I guess I am going top shelf, I am going to get the giard case trimmer and attachments for three cases and maybe the gizmo that cuts the tips of the bullets also a pact digital powder measure. The rest is a 1200 dollar order from redding to cover four die sets and the case prep tools and a few other items like lube. Like I said I like to buy once. I did not want to start buying items only to find out two months later I don't like it or it does not make my life easy. I did post about equipment asking everyone what worked for them. I am basing my purchases on what my fellow forum members suggested and my own research and opinions. I have to admit I did go overboard when I bought the large Dillion case cleaner and case separator but it made cleaning 600 pieces of 308 at a clip real easy. Dump them in and turn the switch on for a couple of hours. I look at it like this, I will be using the stuff until I can't shoulder a weapon anymore. I don't understand why I am compelled to justify why I buy what I buy and why I want what I want.
Thanks everyone for your input! I'll find the stuff I'm looking for eventually. Have a line on some LC virgin M118 brass.
Oh I was looking for .308 sorry I did not specify in my OP.

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Old March 8th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jmoore View Post
ATK, the firm that now operates the Lake City plant, also owns CCI and Speer. And it also just happens to own Federal Ammuntion...
not certain but they are all owned by Freedom Arms(?) which is owned by Cerebus.....which is NOT owned by George Soros.

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Old March 8th, 2012, 10:36 AM   #33
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No one is asking you to justify your purchase. I just don't think it wise to misinform others into thinking that kind of expenditure is necessary. I am no cheapo, but I don't waste my money either. A Giraud case trimmer is not such an item. I'd lobe one. Can't justify the cost when I only load for matches. I also prefer to perform all processes by hand to insure quality control. If I wanted a machine to do all the work I would buy factory ammo. The concept of reloading for me was an enhancement in accuracy from improved quality control using human hands.

I went in knowing I might want something different later as I became educated and start rolling my own. So I went the cheaper route. I was rolling sub-MOA handloads from my small apartment Work-Mate bench with a Lee press and a Forster trimmer and calipers. Realized I didn't need much more than my hands and the space between my temples.

I am an accuracy nut and reload to make rounds that go through the same hole. In an efficient manner. This was one of my second batch of load developments. When I started to grasp it.

168 gr SMK
42.5 gr RL-15
Rem 700 PSS
200 Yards
10 round group - 0.86 MOA


Thanks from TheTinMan

Last edited by hammonje; March 8th, 2012 at 02:21 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #34
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Just FYI... although I'm a big user of once-fired LC brass ( I get mine from Scharch because it's 100% processed... and, yes, I know there can be issues with that) I DID have a complete case head separation on the first loading (documented here ) It did wake me up and that's why I put that 'due diligence' comment in my original post.

I now spend a little extra time and run a paperclip down through the fired cases, along with a good visual inspection. I've also considered just getting virgin IVI cases (or other such cases) and going from there. It's about a 12% price increase to get new brass vs once-fired LC (at least from Scharch) and that doesn't sound like a bad investment, at least you know what you are starting with. GeePee3 also did a writeup on his experiences with IVI brass.

I did get some of the new 5.56mm LC brass... it's pretty sweet!

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Old March 8th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #35
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Can you please tell me where I misinformed anyone? I would be glad to delete it if it makes what's between your head at peace. Please, point out the posts. Did you ever think for one minute that you may be interpreting something I said in the wrong manner? You know what, strike that, I'm not deleting anything.
Buy the way, I'm considering trading in my old car for a new used Benz, I'll check with you to see if it's ok when I sign the papers. Sometimes the world makes me wonder.

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Old March 8th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #36
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Poor choice of wording on my part bro. I didn't mean to say you over spent. If you can afford get the great setup, it is money well spent. I just meant that it doesn't take a $1400 setup to make good rolls.

It can be done on the cheap. It's not the tools, it's the technique/methodology and consistency.

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Old March 8th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #37
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Regarding the Dillon primer pocket swager: It's the best way I've found to get rid of pesky crimps. Easy to do, and puts a nice work hardened radius at the primer pocket entry.

Worth looking into. Saves money in the long run.

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Old March 8th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore View Post
Regarding the Dillon primer pocket swager: It's the best way I've found to get rid of pesky crimps. Easy to do, and puts a nice work hardened radius at the primer pocket entry.

Worth looking into. Saves money in the long run.
+10 on that

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Old March 9th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #39
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I checked it out on YouTube and like the mod many guys are doing to make it automatic. Nice

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Old March 9th, 2012, 02:28 AM   #40
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Warren, you are on the right track. No need to apologise for anything. You have chosen wisely grasshopper. I loaded for over 30 years with strickly handtools. Then I saw the light. Properly used, some of the new equipment is not only faster, but also more accurate than most can do with manual stuff. Specifically the Girraud trimmer. Anyone that has used one will agree, because they guage from the shoulder, they are the cats batookie. Riding a bicycle from NY to LA might provide more scenery as you go, but when your mission is to get to LA, flying is the way.
Semper Fi
Art

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Old March 9th, 2012, 02:45 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by 82nd ABN View Post
WHo makes Lake City brass? Is it winchester? If so is there a difference in commercial winchester and LC?
I have been on the lookout for once fired LC LR brass and it is like trying to find needle in a haystack.
I have 2000 pieces of once fired black hills 308 brass and the 223 brass I have is winchester wcc brass. I would like to get some more brass to stash away. considering I can get four loads on the 308 brass I am good to go for a while but am always on the hunt.

So I was thinking and correct me if I am wrong on this. After cleaning the brass and primer pockets I put them on bags of 100. I plan on changing that to 88 as I use the stuff.
My question is this. I plan on shooting the brass in one bag four times before moving onto the next bag. This way I don't run the risk of getting my stash of brass confused by having all sorts of bags on once, twice and three times fired brass laying around. I figure shoot one bag four times and toss it and move onto the next bag. In theory I will get 4.5 matches on one bag of 100 pieces.
I bought 500 of their .308 LC and they look great. Ran several through the case gauge and they passed with flying colors.

http://www.tacticalbrass.com/

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Old March 9th, 2012, 03:54 AM   #42
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As mentioned there is a difference between LC and commercial brass 308/7.62 but understand there is no difference between LC brass and commercial in 223/5.56. Primer pockets are crimped in LC 223 and is PIA, but I load either one the same, but do cut the load a bit on the LC 308 vs commercial. Several sources for whatever brass you are looking for, I use www.GIBrass.com and if you don't see what you are after, give him a call. Good people.

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Old March 12th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 82nd ABN View Post
WHo makes Lake City brass? Is it winchester? If so is there a difference in commercial winchester and LC?
I have been on the lookout for once fired LC LR brass and it is like trying to find needle in a haystack.

Lake City made both LC Ball brass and the classic M118 Match brass (white box). Yes, commercial brass is different then both ball and M118 brass. The M118 is the best, but it's made differently and you build up pressure far faster because the case capacity is less. M118 once fired brass is like having gold.


I have 2000 pieces of once fired black hills 308 brass and the 223 brass I have is winchester wcc brass. I would like to get some more brass to stash away. considering I can get four loads on the 308 brass I am good to go for a while but am always on the hunt.

I do note have experience with all the commercial brass vendors, but I know Winchester, Federal and I know Lapua. Since I prefer to load accuracy ammo, for commercial I'll be using Lapua. I used Lapua bullets for years. Sadly the best bullet I've ever loaded for accuracy is no longer made. It was a 170 grain "Stepped" boat tail as I call them and for awhile, Hornady made a copy until the old man was killed in a plane crash and the kid's dropped the bullet.

So I was thinking and correct me if I am wrong on this. After cleaning the brass and primer pockets I put them on bags of 100. I plan on changing that to 88 as I use the stuff.

Keeping brass sorted, especially by lots and the amount of reloading is a good idea. Number is up to you. All my 7.62x51 brass is sorted by lots and amount of times they're been reloaded. *IF* you handle the issue smart (including annealing the brass), you'll be shocked at the amount of times you can reload it.


My question is this. I plan on shooting the brass in one bag four times before moving onto the next bag.

Why 4? Again *IF* you properly prepare and reload the ammo, you'll get more then that. Annealing does help. Happy to post a how to if anyone wants, just leave me a private message which pops up first when you long on.

This way I don't run the risk of getting my stash of brass confused by having all sorts of bags on once, twice and three times fired brass laying around. I figure shoot one bag four times and toss it and move onto the next bag. In theory I will get 4.5 matches on one bag of 100 pieces.
Nope, you can get more then that. I know match shooters that have an absurd amount of reloading on M118 brass. Nope, I won't post that actual number. But, these are my kind of people and they load for Superior accuracy.

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Old March 12th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammonje View Post
No one is asking you to justify your purchase. I just don't think it wise to misinform others into thinking that kind of expenditure is necessary. I am no cheapo, but I don't waste my money either. A Giraud case trimmer is not such an item. I'd lobe one. Can't justify the cost when I only load for matches. I also prefer to perform all processes by hand to insure quality control. If I wanted a machine to do all the work I would buy factory ammo. The concept of reloading for me was an enhancement in accuracy from improved quality control using human hands.

I went in knowing I might want something different later as I became educated and start rolling my own. So I went the cheaper route. I was rolling sub-MOA handloads from my small apartment Work-Mate bench with a Lee press and a Forster trimmer and calipers. Realized I didn't need much more than my hands and the space between my temples.

I am an accuracy nut and reload to make rounds that go through the same hole. In an efficient manner. This was one of my second batch of load developments. When I started to grasp it.

168 gr SMK
42.5 gr RL-15
Rem 700 PSS
200 Yards
10 round group - 0.86 MOA


42 grains of either RL-15 or IMR 4064 is the Brown Box load. 4064 is cleaner burning. You might try the 155 PALMA MK, it's a fine bullet as are the 175 grain MKs. With the original Canadian NM M14 barrels, I never had any luck with the 168 grain MKs or Hornady's, since I've moved to medium grade Kreigers, that's changed.

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Old March 12th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by 82nd ABN View Post
I might add that I am getting dies for four different cartridges. Yup I guess I am going top shelf, I am going to get the giard case trimmer and attachments for three cases and maybe the gizmo that cuts the tips of the bullets also a pact digital powder measure. The rest is a 1200 dollar order from redding to cover four die sets and the case prep tools and a few other items like lube. Like I said I like to buy once. I did not want to start buying items only to find out two months later I don't like it or it does not make my life easy. I did post about equipment asking everyone what worked for them. I am basing my purchases on what my fellow forum members suggested and my own research and opinions. I have to admit I did go overboard when I bought the large Dillion case cleaner and case separator but it made cleaning 600 pieces of 308 at a clip real easy. Dump them in and turn the switch on for a couple of hours. I look at it like this, I will be using the stuff until I can't shoulder a weapon anymore. I don't understand why I am compelled to justify why I buy what I buy and why I want what I want.
Thanks everyone for your input! I'll find the stuff I'm looking for eventually. Have a line on some LC virgin M118 brass.
Oh I was looking for .308 sorry I did not specify in my OP.
Be real careful about any "virgin" M118 brass. It's very rare and as often as I still look for it, it's long since been used up. I still have a small amount of once fired, but that's saved for prosperity chuckle.

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