M14 Forum

that guy · February 21st, 2012, 08:59 AM

Is there a place here on this site or any other that could show someone the ropes of reloading?
I want to reload 7.62,5.56 and 9mm. I'd like to know a ballpark of..
1. What kind of equipment, materials are required?
2. How much it would cost, the presses and dies etc?
3. How much would I save as opposed to buying just factory ammo?
4. How much space in the house does all this gear take? Do you reload in the house or garage?

Thanks,

Mike

GreatPlainsRifleman · February 21st, 2012, 09:17 AM

There are going to be a ton of different replies to your thread, be prepared for that.

I just went to Cabela's for ease of searching for this info; you could google the individual items for better pricing elsewhere.

The below link contains the press, powder scale, and hopper. It includes some other stuff that sucks. The three items I just mentioned do not suck. They're just fine.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/50th-...h-All+Products

Team that up with this so that trimming cases doesn't make you want to get a carpal tunnel surgery after 5 minutes of trimming:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/RCBS-...h-All+Products

Then this baby for priming:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Horna...h-All+Products

Then this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/RCBS-...h-All+Products

Then this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/RCBS1...h-All+Products

As per Cabela's pricing, and if my math is right, that's about $291.00 (shipping and possible state sales tax excluded). I own all of those products. I can load very consistent ammunition with that "cheap," single-stage press.

But you've got to spring at least for that case trimmer and Hornady priming tool.

I reload in my garage and have a bench that (providing my wife doesn't try to use it as a storage shelf ;) ) is about 5' X 2.5'. But you don't have to have such a big space. Look at this thread here to see all of the different setups people have over at the CMP community:

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=39691

As to the per-round savings, what are you comparing it to? We can't tell you how much you'd save if we don't know what you're currently feeding your M14 right now.

But for example, let's say you're shooting match ammo at a conservative $.90 per round. And then just for ease of argument's sake say you roll your own at $.50 per round (which factors in shooting projectiles that don't totally suck). You saved $.40 per round. $291.00 divided by $.40 is 727 rounds. So your equipment would start paying for itself after you've shot that 728th home rolled round. :)

Edit: I forgot to add in about $35.00 for the .308 Win die set:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/RCBS-...h-All+Products

So add that to the roughly $300.00 total above.

Edit #2: And then about $25.00 for a Frankford Arsenal electronic caliper from Midway. So roughly $350.00 to get a decent beginner's set that won't make you want to pull your hair out.

vanagonjon · February 21st, 2012, 09:19 AM

Sit down and read the reloading threads here, assuming you are reloading for M14 type rifle. Buy one or more reloading manuals and read them. The cost savings will be based on how many rounds you fire and what quality of ammo you want. I recomend you start small, the low cost Lee kits are pretty complete for a beginner. I am not recomending them, just that level of price of around $100 can get you going. If reloading for M14 types you must full length size to a proper cartridge headspace and trim. Be properly prepaired and sufficiently paranoid. I started reloading about two years ago, and now load 2-3K per year for practice and matches. The M1A has its own demands for ammo, when you understand what and why the ammo has to be made a certain way, then you can start to learn how to properly reload for it.

stoky · February 21st, 2012, 09:23 AM

IMO, the most important consideration for reloading concerns the equipment between your ears. Are you a methodical, patient person? Do you enjoy working with your hands and tinkering? Do you know when to say when and take a break?
You should save 2/3 to 3/4 the cost of factory ammo, depending on what components you select, whether you buy in bulk or not, and what factory ammo you are comparing it to. In and of itself, saving money on ammo is not a compelling reason to reload. It will take time, higher quality ammo will take more time.
It can take up as much space as you let it. There are some fold up setups (and plans for them) that can take up as little space as a computer desk.
I think beginners should avoid progressive presses. There is just too much stuff going on with each stroke to keep track of. Start with a single stage press. If you later decide to go with a multi-station setup, there are still some tasks that you will relegate to the single stage.
Kits are a good way to start. RCBS makes a good one, with a very strong press. Lots of people like Lee stuff, they have a good price point.
Get a couple of reloading manuals and read up.

1KPerDay · February 21st, 2012, 09:25 AM

Reloading handgun rounds is easy and cheap (ish). I highly recommend the Lee Classic Turret press, ideally in a kit from Kempf's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxJwW...2aAUAAAAAAAyAA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iHPm...2dAUAAAAAAAxAA

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?...mart&Itemid=41
This kit (you DO want the pro auto disc upgrade), a scale (ohaus/RCBS 5-0-5 is good) and a set of calipers, and you're good to go.

You'll probably want a vibratory tumbler for case cleaning. I like the Lyman Turbo 2500 without the auto-sifting feature.

I copied the following from another post I made to a guy who was considering starting up reloading

Quote:

I got the Kempf LCT kit with the upgraded "pro" auto disc powder measure. It comes with Lee Deluxe dies for one caliber. The die set also comes with the correct shellholder.

So if you buy that kempf kit up there, in 9mm, all you will need to start reloading is:

1. A micrometer or set of digital calipers (preferred, IMO). I got the cheap ones and they work fine.
2. A reloading scale. RCBS 5-0-5 or 510 is a good one, and pretty inexpensive. I have an old 5-0-5 I'll send you for the cost of shipping if you want to try it; I found my old Redding and prefer it. I also bought a ~$30 mini digital scale and it worked well enough, but goes through batteries, and didn't seem as accurate. But for convenience/speed, a good digital scale is way better.
3. Reloading manual/s of your choice. I have "the ABCs of reloading" and the Hornady manual. I'd get the abcs of reloading if you really have no idea how the process works, but it's farily basic stuff. There is some interesting reading but if you have the basic concept it may not be relevant to you. Also every powder mfg has online reloading data/recipes, as do the major bullet mfgs. So you may not need a hard copy. I have used mine somewhat but the online ones are more convenient.
4 (preferable) a vibratory tumbler and either corncob or walnut tumbler media. drillspot has 40 lbs of corncob media for $25 shipped to your door and that should last pretty much a lifetime. Pet stores sell "lizard litter" walnut media for a good price.
5. Powder, primers, brass, and bullets. If you haven't been saving your brass (shame on you ) you can start to pick up the factory stuff you shoot. You can also check the classified section of forums like thehighroad.org (my favorite general gun forum) for people selling used range pickup brass (which is fine). straight-walled handgun brass lasts pretty much forever, and is really cheap. You can generally get 9mm and .40 for about $.03-.04 each, shipped, and .45ACP for about $.05-$.06. I've seen .38 special for about 3 or 4 cents also. Powder and primers I'd buy locally. I'd recommend Unique, HS6, or Winchester 231 for your purposes. All are well regarded and will work in all your handgun loads. If you buy primers and powder from powder valley or other reloading suppliers, you have to add quite a bit for Hazmat fees. If you order a large supply it's worth it sometimes but i'd just look for primers and powder locally.

Figure $30/1000 primers (or less), and maybe $15-$20/lb for powder. You can find sales on occasion. Wolf primers are cheaper and run about $20/1K.

However, rifle reloading complicates things a bit. It's much more complicated. More tools are required. It's more labor-intensive. You will need, in addition to the above, sizing lubricant (I like imperial sizing wax), a case trimmer of some type (I use the RCBS Trim Pro), a chamfer/deburring tool, and likely a primer pocket cleaner (and maybe reamer/uniformer). And you might want a different type of powder measure (a stand-alone type).

Bottom line: if you're planning on doing primarily rifle and some pistol, get a good single-stage press to start out. (the LCT can also be used as a single stage press FYI).

if you're planning on doing primarily 9mm with some rifle, I'd go with the LCT. The difference in speed between a single stage and the LCT (sort of "semi-progressive) is astonishing. I'm glad I started on the LCT.

1KPerDay · February 21st, 2012, 09:31 AM

BTW this site has tons of good info and excellent videos fyi

http://ultimatereloader.com/

TexIndian · February 21st, 2012, 09:39 AM

Buy a Lyman's reloading manual first and READ it. In addition to the usual load data, it has one of the best reviews on what each step is, why you do it, and how you do it (what tools it takes). When I learned (pre-internet), this was all I had and I've never had any problems.

You'll see a lot of recommendations for different brands. All of the major brands make tools that will get you started just fine. At some point you start getting what you pay for, so watch out for the cheapest tool on the market. Sooner or later you end up replacing those. I started with an RBCS kit (not the cheapest). Some things I still use 30 years later, and some have been replaced by pricier tools.

geepee3 · February 21st, 2012, 09:51 AM

That guy,
Here is a link to a thread I did on limited space reloading.

m14forum.com/ammunition/108326-small-space-portable-reloading-equipment-pic-heavy.html

Plenty of pictures for you to give you an idea of what your up against.

As to saving money, It ain't going to happen.
You end up spending the same amount of money. You just buy components and equipment instead.
But what you get when done right is a cartridge tailor made to your rifle.

Glenn

TheTinMan · February 21st, 2012, 10:05 AM

You may not save any money - just shoot more!

If you are methodical, enjoy doing research and following the scientific method, and love collecting tools, then reloading is for you. If, OTOH, you are impatient, have trouble concentrating, and count on using "load recipes" you find on the errornet, you are better off sticking with factory ammo.

For .308 and other bottle-necked rifle cartridges, you only need two dies: full length sizing die and bullet seating die. Hornady's "Lock & Load" (L-N-L) system makes using their single stage press work nicely because you can switch dies in a minute without having to re-adjust anything. Hornady offers a reasonably complete starter kit Classic L-N-L which includes the Hornady reloading manual (separate section on .308 Service Rifles is essential IMHO).

I much prefer a reliable balance beam scale like the RCBS 5-0-5 compared to any cheap/inexpensive electronic scale. Maybe it's better now, but the battery powered scale that came with my L-N-L kit was crap. Whatever scale you use get a check weight set.

You also need calipers, a bullet puller, a trimmer of some sort... and, well, the list goes on but I can't figure out where "need" stops and "want" starts.

Here's a good place to start:
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sics/index.cfm

Service Rifles have some specific needs:

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html

Frankly, starting with the 9mm might be better even though there are 3 or 4 dies required (sizer, expander/flare case mouth, bullet seater, and crimp). Sometimes the bullet seater also crimps but I believe doing the crimp in a separate step is a much better idea - the bullet isn't moving anymore when you initiate the crimp. (IMHO no crimp needed for .308 although others have and will disagree with that statement.)

I believe that you need a minimum of 2 reloading manuals. Hornady & Sierra would be my suggestions for an M1A because Hornady has the special Service Rifle section and many guys use Sierra bullets (168gr Match King for example). Most powder manufacturers also post load data online. Accurate, Alliant, Hodgdon (Hodgdon, IMR & Winchester), and Vihta Vuori all do. The more data the better. TexIndian is correct about the Lyman manual having the best explanation of reloading step-by-step, and it separates straight-walled pistol cartridges from bottle-necked rifle cartridges. That was a BIG help to me starting out.

A few helpful forums:
http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/default.asp

http://www.handloadersbench.com/

http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/

http://www.reloadbench.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi

There, that should keep you busy for a day or two!

Oh, and here's what getting started in reloading may lead to:
Reloading Bench - New Setup for Pistol Cartridges

GreatPlainsRifleman · February 21st, 2012, 10:12 AM

I would say that if you stick to quality, basic tools and if you then you find deals on lower cost components, you will absolutely save money. Really no doubt about it.

But that again goes back to what kind of ammo standards you currently have, what kind of shooting you do (match shooting, plinking, turning your rifle into an ammo hose, etc.).

charlesPOSTLEwade · February 21st, 2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTinMan

You may not save any money - just shoot more!

That is a Fact You will Save No Money Ever. But you will shoot a whole lot more for the same price with rounds tailored to your weapons.
Not Including Brass for the Following
5.56 .11 each with Hornady 55 gr FMJBT
30-06 & 7.62 .28-.37 each depending on projectile used
If you can buy Bulk like 6000 projectiles at a time this also brings prices down

10mmShooter · February 21st, 2012, 06:36 PM

OP start with staight walled pistol cartridges first....get the basics down, then move to the bottle necked rifle cartridges.

Most will recommend start out on a good single stage press, get the basics down then move to a progessive when budget and volume of reloading warrants it.

PS.....you never save money reloading you simply shoot more...

Example... match ammo can go for $30 for 20(1$1.50rd) of .308. You can reload the same quality match rounds yourself for about .40 cents a round. So you can shoot twice to three times as much through you M1a.

Pistol is another story, I can reload for my .38, 10mm and .44. I can shoot 4 times as much as I can buy factory ammo for.

mustanggt · February 21st, 2012, 07:32 PM

My whole reason for starting to reload was to save money. What I've found instead is a great pastime that I truly love to do. You can take great pride in creating a true piece of quality workmanship to the range and shooting great groups or winning matches or whatever it is you like to do. You will have alot more ammo to shoot which will help to make you a better marksman. Good advice from everyone here. Please do your homework though. Get good manuals and stick to them. Read and read and read some more before you pull the lever on your press. You don't want any mistakes making it to the range so develop a good procedure and stick to it. If you're tired don't reload. If you're angry don't reload. If you can't focus don't reload. You need to be relaxed and in a good frame of mine to be a succesful reloader. If you can't figure something out just ask questions and don't proceed if you aren't sure of something. It isn't worth getting in a hurry or thinking you know when you don't. Enjoy it.

stoky · February 21st, 2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10mmShooter

OP start with staight walled pistol cartridges first....get the basics down, then move to the bottle necked rifle cartridges.

9mm is a tapered case and trickier to reload than .38 or .44.

TheTinMan · February 22nd, 2012, 12:46 PM

I came across a thread on the 1911 Forum asking almost the exact same question. Someone posted links to several threads over at the Sniper's Hide:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...oard=13&page=1

"Reloading 101" and "201" should be helpful, although I don't agree with full length resizing every time for a bolt action rifle.

"Hand Loading for Long Range" 1-5 make interesting reading. Some of it is over the top for my purposes (and probably yours too), but I'd rather know about a procedure and decide to skip it than remain ignorant.