M14 Forum

TheTinMan

I hope that it's ok to ask questions about reloading for AR-15s here.

I've never done any kind of crimp on rifle cartridges, loading .308 and .270. However, there are numerous debates out here on the errornet about crimping .223. Some say roll crimp, some taper crimp, a big Lee Factory Crimp Die following, and some say "leave it alone".

Assuming BTHP bullets from Hornady or Sierra for target shooting, is there any need for a crimp of some kind? (subject of poll)

I noticed that the loaded Hornady 52gr ammo that came yesterday appears to be crimped into a cannelure. Most .224 bullets do not have a cannelure, but a few do. What's up with that? If there's a cannelure, you should crimp into it?

Finally, I do not understand the FCD. If that is the way to go with .223, please explain why and how it's different from a roll or taper crimp.

art7

I've been shooting AR-15 XC for 10 years. For target shooting, I've never crimped, nor do I know anyone who crimps.

Military has different needs, as the ammo could get banged around quite a bit and you don't want bullets moving, but that comes at the expense of higher chamber pressures and likely more variability in MV.

MTU1980

I DO----crimp, that is! I reload for 5.56 and 223 Rem. I like loading my ammo ONE cartridge at a time and use a single stage press. I trust that neck sizing will hold the projectile in well enough as does from FACTORY loaded cartridges and I am sure us hand loading folks can get the same results----therefore, this is probably NOT neccessary, but I personally, also like to add a crimp around the case mouth as well for a little added "grip" for my auto-loading rifles---again, probably not neccessary, but that's just my own preference.

When it comes to bullets withOUT a cannelure, I try to find/determine correct OAL and then I like to crimp the bullet in a touch. I do this by using a NECK SIZING die----not sure if anyone else has tried this or not, but I have found it works well without having to purchase a seperate crimping die. Anyway, I crimp it in about a 1/16th of an inch or less.

If you try to crimp it deep on the neck you will end up crushing the shoulder of the cartridge case and it will not chamber. It might be good to have a cartridge case gauge on hand while doing this to check any cartridges in question. While doing the crimping operation, you can actually FEEL the crimp as it squeezes the case neck around the bullet---and you will aquire the "feel" within the first few rounds you do.

Obviously, the bullets WITH a cannelure will crimp a little nicer/easier, but even so---the non-cannelured bullets crimp with the same "feel".

You can also do this with the 308 Win cartridge as well, however, I have found to use a neck sizing die for crimping, only works with a CANNELURED bullet and NOT a non-cannelured bullet. I just neck size them and always neck size all my 308/7.62x51's anyway.

That's just me and my .02---it's not written in stone and I don't claim to be an expert on ammo or reloading. Someone else may have a different opinion or way of doing things. Hope this has helped---have fun.

liftrat22

For bullets with a cannelure (usually blasting ammo), I'll lightly crimp with the Lee FCD. For my match and practice ammo, I never crimp, but do pay attention to neck tension. It's always worked for me; I've measured rounds that have been chambered from a magazine, and have found no change in OAL.

damon1272

I crimp with the Lee FCD. I shoot an AR for prairie dogs and have seen too many failures with bullets setting back in the case. Accuracy has been great as we stretch it out to 500 or so while shooting off tall bi pods (have to shoot over the grass). The ammo does get banged around a bit as we are walking the whole time but accuracy has been great with the lee dies. One thing with setting them u is that you can easily crush the cases so one has to be careful.

Xsail

I reload for accuracy and I know many do not crimp but I've seen bullet set back so there's no way of knowing what's in that chamber. Did it set back or not? I've shot any given load both ways at the beginning just to see for myself and found slightly BETTER accuracy when I use a Lee Factory Crimp. YMMV.....O.L.

82nd ABN

For what its worth, the BH match 223 ammo I have has cannelures on the bullets. I just ordered 500 rounds from powder valley and he asked if I was going to shoot them in a gas gun I said yes. He asked if my current ammo was crimped I said I had no Idea. He told me what to look for and that is when I discovered what a cannelure is. He suggested getting the same due to the gas gun and a crimping. The BH ammo is very accurate. I plan on crimping the 223 ammo at least the first 500 rounds.

Maxfr

hi all,

I crimp also all my 223 and 222 ammo with the Lee FCD. You can see the force applied to the collet. For me it's mandatory to be sure the bullet will not move under recoil and guarantee the same pressure. After some reloaded, I also reduce the lenght of the brass with the lee tools.

redwingshooter

I never crimp my 223's. My Redding dies provide a perfect amount of neck tension and I have shot 1000's of non-crimped 223's in my ar's without a hitch. Just my 2 cents.

Skeet6

As a competition shooter, I have never crimped any rounds, (223, 308 or 30-06...) nor have I seen any reason to do so in my results. That said, I know of ONE guy who does, and he swears by it.
Mike

Nomad

Have shot several different shooting sports, many threeguns including MGM Ironman
never used a crimp.....
A problem is that the pressure spike may go over a safe zones, so its good for the
factory ammo not mine.....

win308

I use 4895 in my 223 loads (308 as well), so I don't need a crimp to get ball powder to light uniformly...thus, I never crimp anything except handgun ammo. No problems for the last 30 years.

TexIndian

The last time I crimped any .223 ammo was in 1982, when I had to pull apart a bunch of ammo due to shoulder bulging caused by too much crimp. I have never had any problems with set-back, even with ammo for the M1A. You can control neck tension in the sizing step and make crimping unnecessary.

If you are going to taper crimp, it's best to make sure your brass is freshly trimmed. That's where my problem back in '82 came from. The brass was all under the max length, but some was longer than others (typical for brass that has been fired since the last trim). The amount of crimp you get is dependent on the length of the brass, so the longer pieces got more. It is almost impossible to 'feel' the amount of crimp from the handle of a press.

jortinva

I get better groups with the Lee FCD, in both 308 and 223, but only crimp when I'm making competition rounds. I still use a single stage press !

D308FAM

I join others in first looking to control setback via neck tension alone. Expander balls or mandrels or bushings can often be modified or obtained to get the neck tension in terms of 0.001 inches under projectile diameter before projectile seating where it is needed. AND, it does NOT add another step to the handloading process if this is done and it works.
The LEE FCD is an excellent choice if a person is careful NOT to overcrimp which in a match situation means almost no crimp at all.
A taper crimp die is more subtle to use...but as another poster has pointed out the brass needs to be at a uniform length if this is to result in uniform crimps.
The real issue between the two ways to approach this to me are at least these:
1- If you control via neck tension you both help prevent projectile setback AND create time for the powder combustion to build and thus probably get a more uniform powder burn as neck tension is increased.
2- With a LIGHT crimp all you really get is more assurance against projectile setback and virtually no benefit from enhanced powder combustion. Any crimping certainly should be done in a separate step and thus adds at least one more step to the loading process.