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February 15th, 2012, 09:54 AM
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#121 | | Lifer
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,173
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For what it's worth, my Lithuanian(GGG) has the tar sealant in the necks along with a primer sealant. I always thought that all Nato spec ammo had the sealant. After all, the powder/primer was expected to be dry in the wettest conditions. Anybody else with other Nato Spec ammo?? dozier
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February 15th, 2012, 11:42 AM
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#122 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 515
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PMC Bronze had sealed bullets and primers. I bought 10 boxes a few weeks ago, no sealer on bullets or primers. The older head stamp was PSD 07 and the newer ones are PMC 308 WIN. Older necks showed annealing, newer ones don't.
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February 15th, 2012, 03:50 PM
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#123 | | Platoon Sergeant
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SAN FRANCISCO CALIF
Posts: 375
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Mxfr...are all of the rounds you displayed are fired rounds and the holes in the cases are a result of the firing?
M14nm...the cases you displayed are unfired?
reason why I asked is so far there has not been a determination of origin of the pink corrosion. Does it start from the outside of the case or from the inside.? If it originates from the outside, it would be easy to sort out the bad ones, but if it starts from the inside, you won't know until it is too late.
there should be some assessment as to what kind of damage could result from using this ammo. Mxfir seems to have fired hopefully not all 1000 rounds....but, on the other hand if he did, and the chamber withstood it all....the risk is subject to each individual's risk tolerance...
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February 15th, 2012, 04:18 PM
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#124 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: ...
Posts: 71
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I chrony'ed MEN at over 2,900 ft/sec. I am not sure, if I want to expose my 14 to the pressures that occur from these velocities.
Edit: DAG over 2700 ft/sec, Win 762x51 Q3031 over 2900 ft/sec!
Last edited by Hauptgefreiter; February 17th, 2012 at 09:30 PM.
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February 15th, 2012, 04:34 PM
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#125 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Texas
Posts: 60
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I contacted Widener's, they're replacing all my MEN ammo. Explained to them what I found with my stock and they responed fairly quick stating they'd replace it with no issue with Santa Barbara ammo.
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February 15th, 2012, 04:59 PM
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#126 | | Platoon Sergeant
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SAN FRANCISCO CALIF
Posts: 375
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Last edited by Mocos; February 15th, 2012 at 05:01 PM.
Reason: delete...duplicate post
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February 15th, 2012, 07:08 PM
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#127 | | Automatic Rifleman
Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South
Posts: 137
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I always thought that all Nato spec ammo had the sealant.
| A reasonable assumption, but then, that is based on the assumption that the operating characteristics of all weapons are the same, and they are not.
If you look at this Nato Standardization briefing, it very much tip toes around such parochial issues as tar sealant, primer type, etc. They are very careful in not assuming that what is considered best practice in one country is somehow considered the “best” standard by everyone else. When you are dealing with sovereign nations , they all think they are “the best”. And they all do things differently. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallar...Pellegrino.pdf Quote:
Interchangeability–Items possessing similar functional and physical characteristics that are equal in performance, and capable of being exchanged one for the other without alteration
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Interoperability–The ability of systems, units or forces to provide services to and accept services from other systems, units or forces and to use the services so exchanged to enable them to operate effectively together
�� STANAGs are NOT intended to take the place of a national
specification
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February 16th, 2012, 02:15 AM
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#128 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 515
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[QUOTE=Mocos;804466]
M14nm...the cases you displayed are unfired?
All mine were unfired. There were some with the pink corrosion farther down the case, where the brass is thicker, and the corrosion did not penetrate the case. Also, none of mine are pitted as bad, as the ones that Maxfr posted.
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February 16th, 2012, 04:09 AM
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#129 | | Designated Marksman
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 695
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Originally Posted by m14nm  PMC Bronze had sealed bullets and primers. I bought 10 boxes a few weeks ago, no sealer on bullets or primers. The older head stamp was PSD 07 and the newer ones are PMC 308 WIN. Older necks showed annealing, newer ones don't. | Thanks, as I was thinking of picking up some of that.
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February 16th, 2012, 01:25 PM
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#130 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: USA
Posts: 50
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FYI, I just received 600 rounds of mostly 1998 DAG and some '97 & '98 MEN. 95% of them had corrosion that was moderate to severe. No more for me!
What should I feed my rifle now? Prvi Partisan? Lake City?
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February 16th, 2012, 01:40 PM
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#131 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: France
Posts: 47
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to answer Mocos, I 've fired only around 200 rounds, and only 5 are holed .But I don't know if the hole was here before fire. I think not, I've should have seen them....
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February 16th, 2012, 03:56 PM
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#133 | | Platoon Commander
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 515
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatirons M1A | Thanks.
I noticed the sniper round is boxer primed.
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February 17th, 2012, 10:13 AM
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#134 | | Lifer
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m14nm Thanks.
I noticed the sniper round is boxer primed. |
I had to look twice before I noticed that the Boxer Sniper Round was in .300 Win Mag. Other than one Blank round in 7.62x51 that is boxer, all the rest are Berdan primed. dozier
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February 18th, 2012, 05:16 AM
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#135 | | Rifleman
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: AK
Posts: 55
| Quote:
Originally Posted by slamfire1 I am of the opinion that what you are seeing is corrosion due to gunpowder deterioration.
| Its not.
The cardboard this stuff was packed in has acids in it that attacked the brass. (long post from a chemical engineer on another site) If you unpack a box without disturbing the ammo, you can see that most of the corrosion is in a line, where the case was in contact with the paper. Notice how the corrosion has a wider area on the outside and more damage. The holes are also formed with more chemical damage on the outside vice the (ionic??) copper only damage on the inside (farther away).
If it was the powder then all the cases of the same lot would show the same thing. The differences of the mem and dag with the corroded cases were how it was stored. Some was in a high humidity environment and some was not. If you look at the intact cases (if you have enough of them) you can see different storage conditions with the exact same ammo.
I have nearly 15K of this stuff. I noticed the differences when I unpacked it from the wooden boxes. I also inspected 1 BP per the case to make sure. You cannot tell just form the outside, as the worst cases looked just fine, and post form the net have shown perfect green cases with corroded ammo.
As a note I bought the dirty/corroded crap ammo from SGammo and blasted 2K though a beltfed. about 20% blew out, but none blew up.
If you want to keep it perfect, Take it out of the boxes.
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