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Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases.

This is a discussion on Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases. within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; For what it's worth, my Lithuanian(GGG) has the tar sealant in the necks along with a primer sealant. I always thought that all Nato spec ...


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Old February 15th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #121
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For what it's worth, my Lithuanian(GGG) has the tar sealant in the necks along with a primer sealant. I always thought that all Nato spec ammo had the sealant. After all, the powder/primer was expected to be dry in the wettest conditions. Anybody else with other Nato Spec ammo?? dozier

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Old February 15th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #122
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PMC Bronze had sealed bullets and primers. I bought 10 boxes a few weeks ago, no sealer on bullets or primers. The older head stamp was PSD 07 and the newer ones are PMC 308 WIN. Older necks showed annealing, newer ones don't.

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Old February 15th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #123
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Mxfr...are all of the rounds you displayed are fired rounds and the holes in the cases are a result of the firing?

M14nm...the cases you displayed are unfired?

reason why I asked is so far there has not been a determination of origin of the pink corrosion. Does it start from the outside of the case or from the inside.? If it originates from the outside, it would be easy to sort out the bad ones, but if it starts from the inside, you won't know until it is too late.

there should be some assessment as to what kind of damage could result from using this ammo. Mxfir seems to have fired hopefully not all 1000 rounds....but, on the other hand if he did, and the chamber withstood it all....the risk is subject to each individual's risk tolerance...

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Old February 15th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #124
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I chrony'ed MEN at over 2,900 ft/sec. I am not sure, if I want to expose my 14 to the pressures that occur from these velocities.

Edit: DAG over 2700 ft/sec, Win 762x51 Q3031 over 2900 ft/sec!


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Old February 15th, 2012, 04:34 PM   #125
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I contacted Widener's, they're replacing all my MEN ammo. Explained to them what I found with my stock and they responed fairly quick stating they'd replace it with no issue with Santa Barbara ammo.

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Old February 15th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #126
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Last edited by Mocos; February 15th, 2012 at 05:01 PM. Reason: delete...duplicate post
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Old February 15th, 2012, 07:08 PM   #127
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Quote:
I always thought that all Nato spec ammo had the sealant.
A reasonable assumption, but then, that is based on the assumption that the operating characteristics of all weapons are the same, and they are not.

If you look at this Nato Standardization briefing, it very much tip toes around such parochial issues as tar sealant, primer type, etc. They are very careful in not assuming that what is considered best practice in one country is somehow considered the “best” standard by everyone else. When you are dealing with sovereign nations , they all think they are “the best”. And they all do things differently.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallar...Pellegrino.pdf

Quote:
Interchangeability–Items possessing similar functional and physical characteristics that are equal in performance, and capable of being exchanged one for the other without alteration

Interoperability–The ability of systems, units or forces to provide services to and accept services from other systems, units or forces and to use the services so exchanged to enable them to operate effectively together

�� STANAGs are NOT intended to take the place of a national
specification

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Old February 16th, 2012, 02:15 AM   #128
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[QUOTE=Mocos;804466]
M14nm...the cases you displayed are unfired?


All mine were unfired. There were some with the pink corrosion farther down the case, where the brass is thicker, and the corrosion did not penetrate the case. Also, none of mine are pitted as bad, as the ones that Maxfr posted.

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Old February 16th, 2012, 04:09 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m14nm View Post
PMC Bronze had sealed bullets and primers. I bought 10 boxes a few weeks ago, no sealer on bullets or primers. The older head stamp was PSD 07 and the newer ones are PMC 308 WIN. Older necks showed annealing, newer ones don't.
Thanks, as I was thinking of picking up some of that.

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Old February 16th, 2012, 01:25 PM   #130
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FYI, I just received 600 rounds of mostly 1998 DAG and some '97 & '98 MEN. 95% of them had corrosion that was moderate to severe. No more for me!

What should I feed my rifle now? Prvi Partisan? Lake City?

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Old February 16th, 2012, 01:40 PM   #131
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to answer Mocos, I 've fired only around 200 rounds, and only 5 are holed .But I don't know if the hole was here before fire. I think not, I've should have seen them....

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Old February 16th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #132
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Current MEN Ammo Catalog

Everyone may have already seen this. Doesn't help too much with mil surps.

http://www.men-defencetec.de/fileadm...uktkatalog.pdf

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Old February 16th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatirons M1A View Post
Everyone may have already seen this. Doesn't help too much with mil surps.

http://www.men-defencetec.de/fileadm...uktkatalog.pdf
Thanks.
I noticed the sniper round is boxer primed.

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Old February 17th, 2012, 10:13 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m14nm View Post
Thanks.
I noticed the sniper round is boxer primed.

I had to look twice before I noticed that the Boxer Sniper Round was in .300 Win Mag. Other than one Blank round in 7.62x51 that is boxer, all the rest are Berdan primed. dozier

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Old February 18th, 2012, 05:16 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamfire1 View Post
I am of the opinion that what you are seeing is corrosion due to gunpowder deterioration.
Its not.

The cardboard this stuff was packed in has acids in it that attacked the brass. (long post from a chemical engineer on another site) If you unpack a box without disturbing the ammo, you can see that most of the corrosion is in a line, where the case was in contact with the paper. Notice how the corrosion has a wider area on the outside and more damage. The holes are also formed with more chemical damage on the outside vice the (ionic??) copper only damage on the inside (farther away).

If it was the powder then all the cases of the same lot would show the same thing. The differences of the mem and dag with the corroded cases were how it was stored. Some was in a high humidity environment and some was not. If you look at the intact cases (if you have enough of them) you can see different storage conditions with the exact same ammo.

I have nearly 15K of this stuff. I noticed the differences when I unpacked it from the wooden boxes. I also inspected 1 BP per the case to make sure. You cannot tell just form the outside, as the worst cases looked just fine, and post form the net have shown perfect green cases with corroded ammo.

As a note I bought the dirty/corroded crap ammo from SGammo and blasted 2K though a beltfed. about 20% blew out, but none blew up.

If you want to keep it perfect, Take it out of the boxes.

Thanks from m14nm
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