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Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases.

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Old February 11th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #106
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Just for the record my numbers are DAG93A0301 and 302.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 01:26 AM   #107
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"Thanks to M14nm for the pictures".
Your welcome asa sarge.

I almost didn't start this thread. This subject has been discussed here many times, but I thought it might help out some of the newer members, and pictures make it easier to understand.

The pictures that Maxfr posted are scary to say the least. It would have been interesting to see them before they were fired.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 02:00 AM   #108
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I think it could be sweating on the inside from the air inside the case exchanging with the outside air. Just like your fuel tanks.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 03:45 AM   #109
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hi,

just a couple of pictures, same brass with new ones with hole again, and 2 brass seem to be attacked by corrosion, the hole has starting, but without or very few dark mark. That means the hole could come without a previous corrosion mark.




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Old February 12th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Maxfr View Post
hi,

just a couple of pictures, same brass with new ones with hole again, and 2 brass seem to be attacked by corrosion, the hole has starting, but without or very few dark mark. That means the hole could come without a previous corrosion mark.




Love yor pics maxfr, especially the bottom one. Anytime you see any cratering of the case wall as you have shown, the wall thickness has been compromised. It will be weaker in that spot and is like the weak link on a chain. This stuff should be discarded just like the stuff with the pinkish residue. dozier

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Old February 12th, 2012, 10:35 AM   #111
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I'm very sad cause these 1000 rounds was my first ammo for my M1A.
So I have to wait answer from my gunsmith for return and get new ones.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 10:49 AM   #112
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I'm very sad cause these 1000 rounds was my first ammo for my M1A.
So I have to wait answer from my gunsmith for return and get new ones.
If he is a reputable retailer, he should take it back in a heartbeat. He should discontinue selling this retail, and return it to to his distributor. Imagine some of this being used by the uninformed? dozier

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Old February 12th, 2012, 10:54 AM   #113
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Agreed! Any reputable seller should refund your money. I would also get the chamber of your rifle checked out. As a result of the MEN/DAG fiasco I am only buying Privi for now. It's hard to beat newly manufactured ammo that has reloadable cases that costs about the same as milsurp.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #114
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thanks for your support !!

what do you think about Tulammo vs Partizan ? cause the price is double for partizan... but maybe could you linked me to the good thread about Tulammo , to avoid cut this thread.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #115
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Tula Ammo is steel cased. I would strongly advise against shooting steel cased ammo in a M14 especially with how expensive a REAL M14 is.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxfr View Post
hi,

just a couple of pictures, same brass with new ones with hole again, and 2 brass seem to be attacked by corrosion, the hole has starting, but without or very few dark mark. That means the hole could come without a previous corrosion mark.



It seems weird that the cases are printed 308 Winchester for NATO use. What is up with that?

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Old February 12th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #117
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no idea the reason why each brass are marked "308 WIN" .However, absolutely ALL cartridge are marked.

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Old February 12th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #118
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Non of my DAG or MEN is ink stamped on the side of the cases

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Old February 12th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #119
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Quote:
Some of the ones with the pinkish colored, pitted corrosion, was corroded all the way through to the inside of the case. Although many were not.

On the ones that were, the corrosion was starting to effect the powder, and some of the powder was stuck fast to the inside of the case.
I am of the opinion that what you are seeing is corrosion due to gunpowder deterioration.

Most shooters are of the impression that gunpowder lasts forever: it does not. Gunpowder has a shelf life and as it ages it gives off NOx gases, which when mixed with humidity, one of the by products is nitric acid gas.

Nitric acid gas will corrode brass. And copper bullets.

Section from the Propellant Management Guide:

Stabilizers are chemical ingredients added to propellant at time of manufacture to
decrease the rate of propellant degradation and reduce the probability of auto ignition during its expected useful life.

As nitrocellulose-based propellants decompose, they release nitrogen oxides. If the nitrogen oxides are left free to react in the propellant, they can react with the nitrate ester, causing further decomposition and additional release of nitrogen oxides. The reaction between the nitrate ester and the nitrogen oxides is exothermic (i.e., the reaction produces heat). Heat increases the rate of propellant decomposition. More importantly, the exothermic nature of the reaction creates a problem if sufficient heat is generated to initiate combustion. Chemical additives, referred to as stabilizers, are added to propellant formulations to react with free nitrogen oxides to prevent their attack on the nitrate esters in the propellant. The stabilizers are scavengers that act rather like sponges, and once they become “saturated” they are no longer able to remove nitrogen oxides from the propellant. Self-heating of the propellant can occur unabated at the “saturation” point without the ameliorating effect of the stabilizer. Once begun, the self-heating may become sufficient to cause auto ignition.


Heat is probably the worst enemy of gunpowder. Propellant stability is conducted in thermal ovens. If the propellent fumes within 30 days it is examined for stability content.

Clumping of powders is a certain sign of old gunpowder that is unsafe to shoot. Old gunpowder has decayed unevenly and that will create an erratic burn rate. Most of the time nothing happens, some times pressures spike.

German ammunition does not use tar sealant because tar sealant will gum up the flutes. As in all firearms design, the bolt is designed to take the full load of the cartridge, ignoring case friction. Case friction is an unwanted parasitic force. The chamber flutes free float the upper 2/3 rds of the cartridge, to reduce case to chamber friction, and if those flutes are clogged, excessive breech friction will cause a failure to cycle.


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Last edited by slamfire1; February 12th, 2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: wordsmithing
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Old February 15th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamfire1 View Post
.



German ammunition does not use tar sealant because tar sealant will gum up the flutes. As in all firearms design, the bolt is designed to take the full load of the cartridge, ignoring case friction. Case friction is an unwanted parasitic force. The chamber flutes free float the upper 2/3 rds of the cartridge, to reduce case to chamber friction, and if those flutes are clogged, excessive breech friction will cause a failure to cycle.

The Dag and Men that I have, both have a tar like sealant in the necks.

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