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Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases.

This is a discussion on Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases. within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Wow, (In regards to buying from Ammoman), I bought 1K from him and around 30% was corroded and a lot more had a "black tar ...


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Old January 31st, 2012, 05:46 AM   #76
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Wow, (In regards to buying from Ammoman), I bought 1K from him and around 30% was corroded and a lot more had a "black tar like substance" on the rounds. All that black crap cleaned up but 10% or so of the corroded ammo was pitched.

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Old January 31st, 2012, 07:45 AM   #77
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Helpful and good information. Thank you.

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Old January 31st, 2012, 01:47 PM   #78
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Those pics are pretty shocking! The inside corrosion is scary.
I made a couple of videos about nine months ago that I did not share at the time because of computer problems and I wasn't sure if the videos offered any answers. However, I thought I would share them here in order to bring a little balance to the issue. This may be moot if there is no more DAG on the market. Also I might mention the the very last pack I picked up was the worst. It looked a little messed up on the outside, like it had been sitting around gathering dust somewhere.

Anyway here is last year's look at DAG:

http://youtu.be/Z-Trmr0EI-0
http://youtu.be/SH3Vckc1lck

Thanks from conditionone and m14nm
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Old January 31st, 2012, 03:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asa sarge View Post
Wow, (In regards to buying from Ammoman), I bought 1K from him and around 30% was corroded and a lot more had a "black tar like substance" on the rounds. All that black crap cleaned up but 10% or so of the corroded ammo was pitched.
can you post a picture of the rounds with the "black tar like substance" That's a new one.

this past weekend I spot checked the DAG I have which came from Ammoman a year ago. I didn't find any corrosion on the ones I opened and they were representative of a few cases...all from the same lot year 93 and the last three digits were 337.

might be a good idea to start something and post year and lot numbers and indicate what was found. The DAG source may have dried up but they are probably sitting in some safe for storage and if there is corrosion...

I had a case of FN surplus that I bought because it was reported to have surface corrosion....turned out to be greenish and steel wool would essentially wipe it off. I pulled one of the bullets to determine what kind of powder was in the case. I was spherical ball powder. I then ran a batch of them in my vibratory cleaner and loaded it heavily so that the brass would abraid the other cases...ran it for 1/2 hr and all the corrosion came off but left a dark blackish stain mark on the brass where there was corrosion. The rest of the brass shined up very nicely. Other than the color the stained portion was smooth without any pitting. I fired a couple mags full without incident and put the rest back into GI ammo can for future use. I would not have used the vibratory tumbler if the powder was extruded or flake powder as they could become pulverized and change the burning characterists of the powder which could possibly become dangerous.

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Old January 31st, 2012, 09:10 PM   #80
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nice video sixplus1.
The thing that hacks me off the most about this is that the ammo was labeled DAG in the catalog and online but was in fact MEN, a different manufacturer. i got mine from CTD (shoot me, or don't, I might shoot back) and fully intend to make it their problem. What a waste of time.
Remember kids, just because it's NiCu doesn't make it good. I've had a bunch of DAG that was flawless (like in the 6+1 video) and now i've got a bunch of worthless MEN that was advertised as DAG.


eta: It looks like the battlepacks and labeled as DAG by CTD, but the factory label says MEN. I did tear into some MEN 95 and not one single box I opened had any tarnish whatsoever. I'm not quite as PO'd as I was, but still I found about 15% out of the 94 to have the pink corrosion.


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Old February 1st, 2012, 07:06 AM   #81
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[QUOTE=Mocos;795571]can you post a picture of the rounds with the "black tar like substance" That's a new one.

Sorry Mocos, all my ammo has been cleaned already and I never thought to take any pictures. All I can add to the story is most of this black tar like stuff is on the ends of the case mouths and bullets, like something leaked out of the case mouth. I'd say about 15% or so of the 1k had it. Most wiped off fairly easily but it was very sticky and no way would you have wanted to even try to fire it, heck I don't think it would have even chambered.

I do know I will not buy any more DAG/MEN ammo without being able to look it over ahead of time. Sure wasn't any savings to me with all the time and effort put forth to clean it up and discard however many rounds I wound up tossing pulling for the brass.

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Old February 1st, 2012, 07:38 AM   #82
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The last bulk ammo I purchased was BVAC, which for a few cents more per round are reloads in boxer primed brass. The store was out of South African, had Malaysian which I wasn't sure about at the time... might try that. I had to wrangle the BVAC out of the backroom.

The ugly DAG/MEN will get shot first.

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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:20 AM   #83
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Cool

[QUOTE=asa sarge;795885]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocos View Post
can you post a picture of the rounds with the "black tar like substance" That's a new one.Sorry Mocos, all my ammo has been cleaned already and I never thought to take any pictures. All I can add to the story is most of this black tar like stuff is on the ends of the case mouths and bullets, like something leaked out of the case mouth. I'd say about 15% or so of the 1k had it. Most wiped off fairly easily but it was very sticky and no way would you have wanted to even try to fire it, heck I don't think it would have even chambered.

I do know I will not buy any more DAG/MEN ammo without being able to look it over ahead of time. Sure wasn't any savings to me with all the time and effort put forth to clean it up and discard however many rounds I wound up tossing pulling for the brass.

That black tar like substance is a bullet sealant used on most, or all Mil-surp ammo. It's to help keep the powder dry in wet/rainy battle conditions. I've notice this on Cavim and Litho ammo when I pulled some of the bullets down. It was not noticeable on the outside till the bullets were pulled. I can only guess that this ammo was stored in some really hot weather and the "tar" melted out the case mouth????? dozier

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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:31 AM   #84
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Thanks for the informative thread.

Tony.

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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:09 AM   #85
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[QUOTE=asa sarge;795885]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocos View Post
can you post a picture of the rounds with the "black tar like substance" That's a new one.

Sorry Mocos, all my ammo has been cleaned already and I never thought to take any pictures. All I can add to the story is most of this black tar like stuff is on the ends of the case mouths and bullets, like something leaked out of the case mouth. I'd say about 15% or so of the 1k had it. Most wiped off fairly easily but it was very sticky and no way would you have wanted to even try to fire it, heck I don't think it would have even chambered.

I do know I will not buy any more DAG/MEN ammo without being able to look it over ahead of time. Sure wasn't any savings to me with all the time and effort put forth to clean it up and discard however many rounds I wound up tossing pulling for the brass.
ahh that stuff is probably sealant if it is at the case mouth....if you pull a bullet, it will have it on the circumference of the bullet below the cannelure.

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Old February 1st, 2012, 07:53 PM   #86
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None of the battle packs that I've opened had any sealant on the brass. I'll open my last one in a few minutes. If there is any on the brass, I'll post a picture.

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Old February 1st, 2012, 10:39 PM   #87
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m14nm...you're right...the DAG doesn't have sealant..at least the batches I have...

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Old February 2nd, 2012, 03:56 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Vision View Post
Here's a follow-up on my ammo inspection.

I went through 500 rounds of DAG from at least 2 separate lots.
328 rounds were perfect.
130 rounds were slightly tarnished and could be cleaned up with a Scotchbrite pad & 0000 steel wool.
42 rounds were pinked and pitted and will be discarded.
I can tell you that some lots are worse than others. Unfortunately, I don't have the lot numbers.

The punch line of this is that I had already gone through 100 rounds of DAG and never had a problem or even noticed any corrosion! There should have been at least a handful of tarnished or pitted rounds in that group of 100. It all fired fine - and was darn accurate!
I see you are "Double Vision". In that case simply divide the number of offending rds by 2 to get an accurate count.

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Old February 2nd, 2012, 07:22 PM   #89
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Well I opened my last battle pack of Men 94H0008. Although there was no sealant on the brass, this is what I found.

15 pitted
77 with light to heavy green corrosion
108 good to go

[IMG][/IMG]

This was typical for the rest of the battle packs, opened previously, except for one. It had around 30 pitted and more of the green corrision.

Thanks for all the replys.
Cliff

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Old February 3rd, 2012, 05:47 PM   #90
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just to be clear...so that usable ammunition is not unknowingly wasted.

The rounds with green / blue-green corrosion appear to be essentially cosmetic in nature and that green / blue-green corrosion in your investigation appear to not penetrate the cases and that it is up to the user to determine their usability.

The cases with the pinkish corrosion have been shown to have penetrated the case walls and are not safe to use because the severity of the penetration and it's effect upon firing has not been determined.

cheers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by m14nm View Post
Well I opened my last battle pack of Men 94H0008. Although there was no sealant on the brass, this is what I found.

15 pitted
77 with light to heavy green corrosion
108 good to go

[IMG][/IMG]

This was typical for the rest of the battle packs, opened previously, except for one. It had around 30 pitted and more of the green corrision.

Thanks for all the replys.
Cliff

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