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Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases.

This is a discussion on Pictures of Corrosion. inside MEN94 cases. within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Flatirons M1A Everyone may have already seen this. Doesn't help too much with mil surps. http://www.men-defencetec.de/fileadm...uktkatalog.pdf That was some good info for ...


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Old February 18th, 2012, 05:45 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatirons M1A View Post
Everyone may have already seen this. Doesn't help too much with mil surps.

http://www.men-defencetec.de/fileadm...uktkatalog.pdf
That was some good info for me, thanks Flatirons.

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Old February 18th, 2012, 06:46 AM   #137
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[QUOTE=TaylorWSO;805736]Its not.

The cardboard this stuff was packed in has acids in it that attacked the brass. (long post from a chemical engineer on another site) If you unpack a box without disturbing the ammo, you can see that most of the corrosion is in a line, where the case was in contact with the paper. Notice how the corrosion has a wider area on the outside and more damage. The holes are also formed with more chemical damage on the outside vice the (ionic??) copper only damage on the inside (farther away).


I respectfully disagree TaylorWSO. The last 5 boxes of DAG I unpacked had severe corrosion in the center rows, ammo that was not touching the outside of the cardboard box. I hear what you are saying and agree that the rounds touching the cardboard showed more green corrosion but I had a lot of the "pink" corrosion on the ammo that was in the middle of the boxes.

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Old February 21st, 2012, 07:37 PM   #138
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Sorry to hijack this tread a bit, but I have a quick question regarding this corroded ammo

I recently picked up a couple hundred rounds of MEN '93 and I too have had issues with corrosion on the brass. I have put about 100 rounds of it through my socom 16 and have had numerous failures to feed (roughly 40%). Does anyone feel that this could be attributed to the corrosion? Everything else I have put through the rifle has worked perfectly.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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Old February 21st, 2012, 09:15 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocos View Post
was going over this thread and regarding the black stuff around the case mouth....I only have DAG and they do not have sealant. I don't have any MEN. Does any of the MEN have sealant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesseajohnson View Post
Sorry to hijack this tread a bit, but I have a quick question regarding this corroded ammo

I recently picked up a couple hundred rounds of MEN '93 and I too have had issues with corrosion on the brass. I have put about 100 rounds of it through my socom 16 and have had numerous failures to feed (roughly 40%). Does anyone feel that this could be attributed to the corrosion? Everything else I have put through the rifle has worked perfectly.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
I would venture to say yes...if feeding from a magazine of rounds that have surface corrosion, the amount of friction of all the rough surfaces could certainly slow things down a bit to the point there isn't enough force to chamber a round and they may also hang up going into the chamber....clean some of the rounds off with steel wool and try it again and see what happens.

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Old February 22nd, 2012, 11:57 AM   #140
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NATO 7.62x51 (West German Version)

Had to rediscover where this file lived since couldn't attach a pdf.

This six page pdf cover multiple military calibers, but the German DAG/MEN bullet performance starts on the fourth page. Image quality is so-so but still it's a useful document.


ammo.ar15.com/ project/ Fackler_Articles/ wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf


Last edited by Flatirons M1A; February 22nd, 2012 at 11:58 AM. Reason: add hyperlink
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Old February 24th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #141
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So I plan on going through some of my DAG/MEN (I have both) and taking a closer look. I have shoot about 600 of the DAG without any issues, I noticed a little of the green corrosion, but heard it was no issue, so I shot it with fine results. But Iwas never really looking for any Pink corrosion (I could have over looked it easily).

**update**
Opened up a battle pack of LOS MEN95C0008 (from UN Ammo Company)
Pink corrosion: 7%
Green corrosion (but shootable): 28%
No issues: 65%

Opened up the rest of the case of MEN, and the averages seemed real close to the first battle pack:
Pink corrosion: 7.7%
Green corrosion: 24.8%
No issues: 67.5%

Also opened up a battle pack ok LOS DAG93C0332 (from wiedners)
Pink corrosion: 0.5% the one I found was even questionable, but It's not worth it to me to risk anything...
Green corrosion: 1.5%
No issues 98%

Looks like I'll be leaving the DAG in battle packs, but what to do with the MEN
How do you guys recomend storring this stuff (now that I want to open up/inspect my ammo)? I bought a lot of it because I liked that they were "sealed for long term storage" so if I open these battlepacks up, how do I keep them in good shooting condition?

BUNCHES of 30mm ammo cans? or what?


Last edited by triggernick; February 25th, 2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #142
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Just got 200 rnd. battle pack, 96 DAG. After reading posts, had to open it up. Found 21 rnds. with pink spots, pulled bullet & cut case. Definite corrosion of brass on inside of case with powder stuck to the corrosion area. Have to agree with Mocas, If you see pink spot on outside of catridge case, CHUNK IT! Have shot approx. 100 rnds. of the rest ( after cleaning cases ), worked just fine, fairly accurate too.

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Old February 27th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #143
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Quote:
Definite corrosion of brass on inside of case with powder stuck to the corrosion area.
I would not fire any ammunition with clumped powder in the case.

In my review of old American Rifleman Dope bag articles, I found one report of a gentleman who had a high pressure (may have caused a blowup) from firing old surplus ammunition, which, upon later investigation, powder was clumped in the case.

As powder deteriorates, the powder gives off NOx gas and the grains deteriorate in an uneven fashion. I have been told by an Insensitive munitions expert that burn rate instability happens with old gunpowder and even though the total energy of the grain will be less in time, uneven pressure waves can cause pressure spikes. This Garand Kaboom is consistent with this explanation

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1344088

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Old February 27th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #144
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800 rounds of MEN & DAG went back to Widener's a week ago. They refunded my full cost including the original shipping & they paid for the return shipping. I can't complain about how they handled the situation after the problem became known to me.

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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 426wedge View Post
It seems weird that the cases are printed 308 Winchester for NATO use. What is up with that?
Interesting, those cases in the photo are DAG cases?

Years ago RGuns sold some crap "floorsweepings/god knows what happened to 'em" "Surplus" IMI in 5.56, .308 and I think .45 and 9MM. They were also stamped like that.

Hmmm... first link from Google... read the 4th post.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...urplus-Warning

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Old March 12th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #146
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Question

Just received my new RCBS bullet puller and took several of the most corroded DAG cases I have and pulled the bullets. I then cut down the brass to see how it looked. I found no clumping of powder and no penetration of the brass cases. I'm here to tell you that the outside of these look terrible with all the pinkish corrosion yet nothing penetrated these half a dozen or so cases I've pulled. Don't know what to think now. Sorry, no pictures guys, wife has the camera.

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Old March 23rd, 2012, 02:45 PM   #147
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Opened another BP of MEN94, because my ammo can that HAD 600 rounds of Argentine in it is getting low...:eek:

LOS MEN94H0010

100% Bright, Shiny, and with ZERO pink or green corrosion.

for now its getting dumped into an ammo can, to be loaded into mags at a later date!


Boy am I happy... I was worried that I'd have another bad batch. Four more BPs to go (fingers crossed)


EDITED TO ADD: opened up another BP since it's just getting dumped into an ammo can for now, and LOS MEN92K0005 was also clean as a whistle... nothing but bright shiny brass and nickle.

I should go buy a lotto ticket or something?

Thanks from m14nm
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 11:18 PM   #148
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YES!!! Buy a lottery ticket. Not everyone was so lucky.

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Old March 27th, 2012, 06:51 AM   #149
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hi all

my gunsmith finaly accept the change, i'm waiting the new ones, hope they'll be clean !!

I let you know the marking and the finish.

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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:36 AM   #150
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when cleaning the surface corrosion on the green corrosion cases do i need to just get rid of the colored material or the discolored dark discoloration underneath aswell?

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