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IMR 4064 & 150gr Hornady FMJBT

This is a discussion on IMR 4064 & 150gr Hornady FMJBT within the Ammunition forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Hello all, I'm waiting on my first M14 from 7.62MM. While I wait, I'd like to get my reloading stuff in order. I've been loading ...


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Old November 28th, 2011, 09:08 AM   #1
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IMR 4064 & 150gr Hornady FMJBT

Hello all,

I'm waiting on my first M14 from 7.62MM. While I wait, I'd like to get my reloading stuff in order. I've been loading for my M1 Garands for some time now.

I've done some searching on this site, but does anyone have any data ranges for powder charge for IMR 4064 when using 150gr FMJBT's? Also, I'm seeing that the majority is loading to 2.8" OAL. Any info with regards to OAL with this type of powder/bullet type would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

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Old November 28th, 2011, 11:01 AM   #2
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FMJs are usually seated a little shorter than other bullets, the cartridge will probably perform better if you use an OAL of about 2.75".

With that OAL and a standard commercial case, I would use a powder charge weight in the range of 40 - 44 grains. Don't go over 44 grains, the chamber pressure would be over 55,000 PSI. The most accurate load would probably be around 40.0 - 40.5 grains (around 2550 fps muzzle velocity) but the best compromise between speed/range/accuracy would most likely be around 43.0 - 43.5 grains (up around 2700 fps and slightly compressed load). If you use military cases drop the powder charge weight by about 1 grain.

I have had very good success with IMR 3031 and 155 gr Hornady A-Max bullets in my SOCOM 16 (16.25" barrel) and they work pretty well in my loaded model rifle but if I were developing a 150 gr load specifically for the 22" barrel I would probably experiment with Winchester 760. With a 150 grain bullet seated at 2.75" OAL, I would use about 46 grains (plus or minus a few tenths of a grain depending on what works best for that rifle).

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Old November 28th, 2011, 11:08 AM   #3
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As regards OAL....consistency is the greatest factor in reloading. I don't really think 0.005" is really going to matter that much. I load all of my 155 gr projectiles at 2.75 - 2.80". Load my 168/175 gr projectiles out to 2.82 - 2.83".

I exclusively use IMR4895 for the M1A, M1 Garand, and 03/03a3. My favorite projectile is the 155 gr Nosler CC.

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Old November 28th, 2011, 11:11 AM   #4
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Thanks to you both.

RAMMAC, that is exactly what I needed to know, thanks so much. I'll probably start at 40 grains on the dot and work up from there.

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Old November 28th, 2011, 11:27 AM   #5
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The Hornady 150 grain FMJBT is one of the most accurate FMJ bullets. Seated to the cannelure it ends up shorter than most loads. Around 2.70" I think. That's not a problem. It's nearly impossible to load too much IMR-4064 in 308 Winchester. 43.0 grains in a military case is about it before it starts getting compressed. You may be able to get 44.0 grains in a military case and I know some people have claimed greater charges in commercial cases. There's no reason to to try load hotter though. 43.0 grains is a good load and you can 43.5 and 44.0 for accuracy. If loading the Hornady bullets to the cannelure, then 43.0 grains may be as much as you want to try to squeeze into the cases. You can try down to 41.0 or 42.0 grains and it should still work alright. Old NRA load data claimed desired velocity with 43.0 grains and maximum pressure with 44.0 grains in a military cases for service rifle use with a 150 grain Sierra Match King loaded to 2.80". Note the NRA testing went up in 1.0 grain steps, not half grain, so 43.5 grains was not tested.

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Old November 28th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #6
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There is something about 4064 and 44 grains. I've shot that charge in MilSurp brass pushing the 135 variety. Shot it with 168s and Lapuas, and shot it behind the 185 Bergers at 2.93 col in the old Remington BR brass which has the most case capacity out of any brass I have. Life was simple on that particular rifle, one charge for every yard line.

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Old November 28th, 2011, 04:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Coleman View Post
The Hornady 150 grain FMJBT is one of the most accurate FMJ bullets. Seated to the cannelure it ends up shorter than most loads.
I don't seat the Hornady to the cannelure, here's why:

L to R: Winchester 147grn, Prvi 145grn, Hornady 150grn...


If you do seat to the cannelure, just watch your pressure, particularly in military brass.

Thanks from jmoore and GreatPlainsRifleman
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Old November 29th, 2011, 04:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie98 View Post
I don't seat the Hornady to the cannelure, here's why:

L to R: Winchester 147grn, Prvi 145grn, Hornady 150grn...


If you do seat to the cannelure, just watch your pressure, particularly in military brass.
Amen. I ignore the cannelure; they're often all over the place.

Thanks from RAMMAC and donker2
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Old November 29th, 2011, 08:12 PM   #9
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One other item of note is the ogive profile... just in those 3 bullets alone there are 3 different profiles... and each will seat to a different OAL. I have to double-check every time I start to load that the seater is set to a particular bullet... I don't rely on my 'last load' sticky note I put in the die box.

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Old November 29th, 2011, 10:04 PM   #10
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Hornady has it listed at 38.4g(2300fps) to 44.9g(2700fps) max with a c.o.l. of 2.700"

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Old November 29th, 2011, 11:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyb View Post
Hornady has it listed at 38.4g(2300fps) to 44.9g(2700fps) max with a c.o.l. of 2.700"
This is something that we all need to be aware of, we have to use the most appropriate information from the reloading manual. When you look at a load in the manual, check to see what kind of firearm they used to develop the load data. Type of action, barrel length, and cartridge overall length (COAL) will all have an affect on chamber pressure and muzzle velocity.

Those numbers aren't from their service rifle section. The rifle they used to develop those loads was a Winchester model 70 with a 22" barrel and a 1 in 12" twist. 44.9 grains of powder will not produce pressures that would be a problem for the Winchester 70 bolt rifle but for the M1A it is starting to push the pressures up higher than I would recommend. I doubt if it would damage the rifle in the short term but over time it would wear the rifle faster than is necessary.

The service rifle section's lightest bullet data is for the 155 grain A-Max.

The COAL is different than what they show for their 150 grain FMJ (2.800" for the A-Max and 2.700" for the FMJ).

The powder charge weights for the 155 grain A-Max in the service rifle section are 37.9 (2200 fps) - 43.2 (2700 fps) grains of powder.

The slightly heavier A-Max bullet is listed as using slightly less powder but achieving the same muzzle velocity as the FMJ bullet. That's because the weight difference increases chamber pressure. On the other hand, the lighter FMJ bullet is seated deeper than the heavier A-Max bullet. Again, deeper seating depth will increase chamber pressure.

So, what difference would there be if we used the FMJ in the M1A vs. the Winchester M70.

First of all, the loads listed in the manual for a bolt rifle will usually produce higher pressures than what would be prudent for the M1A. So a good rule of thumb is that if they show a load for a bolt rifle and you want to use the same cartridge in the M1A, drop the load by about a grain and work your way up slowly while looking for pressure signs. Always assume that loads developed for a bolt rifle are a little on the hot side for the M1A.

Second, it is not a good idea to use the max load listed for a bolt rifle in the M1A. I have the advantage of being able to use some very good software that will predict chamber pressures and other internal ballistic information fairly accurately. If you use 44.9 grains of IMR 4064 in the average commercial case, without crimping, and you seat the 150 grain FMJ to 2.700" you will most likely produce chamber pressures of about 57,000 PSI and muzzle velocities of about 2800 FPS in a M1A with a 22" barrel. If you used a Lake City case your pressures would be closer to 60,000 PSI. I would make it a habit to reduce the max load for a bolt rifle by about one grain if you want to use it in the M1A.

Thanks from charlie98, LoB, 1100 tac and 2 others
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Old August 10th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMAC View Post
This is something that we all need to be aware of, we have to use the most appropriate information from the reloading manual. When you look at a load in the manual, check to see what kind of firearm they used to develop the load data. Type of action, barrel length, and cartridge overall length (COAL) will all have an affect on chamber pressure and muzzle velocity.
Words of wisdom!
I just stepped onto this rake and got whacked over the forehead, having developed an accurate 44.6gr load of 4064 with Hornady 150 FMJBT for a bolt action and using it in M305. Accuracy went South and after quite a bunch of rounds I got a cold feeling down the spine - I was shooting a hot bolt load in a service rifle! Of course there were fliers all over the place. Back to the bench, loading a bunch more between 40 and 43.6.

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Old August 10th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Bamban View Post
There is something about 4064 and 44 grains. I've shot that charge in MilSurp brass pushing the 135 variety. Shot it with 168s and Lapuas, and shot it behind the 185 Bergers at 2.93 col in the old Remington BR brass which has the most case capacity out of any brass I have. Life was simple on that particular rifle, one charge for every yard line.
Bamban, simple, its half of 88. lol. Seymour

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Old August 10th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #14
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After 3 range sessions I finally found a load that cycles with the hornady 150g. and IMR4064, 36gr.

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Old August 10th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by charlie98 View Post
I don't seat the Hornady to the cannelure, here's why:

L to R: Winchester 147grn, Prvi 145grn, Hornady 150grn...


If you do seat to the cannelure, just watch your pressure, particularly in military brass.
Projectile makers have a conundrum to face when placing cannelures as it cannot be known before hand which cartridge - here we consider the 308 Winchester and 30-06 Springfield for example - the projectile will be seated in.
Thus, I would either inquire before purchase what the cannelure is set for on the projectiles of interest or plan on judiciously crimping the cartridge to whatever is the selected seating depth of choice if the cannelure is in the wrong spot or getting someone to put a cannelure on it where I wanted it.
I am biased with FMJ's as I consider them first and foremost to be "combat" projectiles and thus prefer crimping them to be SURE they are NOT going to move no matter what when I load them. Others may do otherwise but that's my own bias......

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