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Broken weld Unitized Cylinder

This is a discussion on Broken weld Unitized Cylinder within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Forget semantics. In a nutshell I think I've found my source of troubles with inconsistent shot groups. I've got a pm sent to a member ...


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Old April 27th, 2017, 09:49 PM   #1
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Broken weld Unitized Cylinder

Forget semantics.

In a nutshell I think I've found my source of troubles with inconsistent shot groups. I've got a pm sent to a member who is mentoring me through my frustrations but he should've been in bed a few hours now and I want to share this for everybody's edification.


Two days ago at range shot first three shots from cold bore, high left one inch I can cover with a dime. Didn't bother with shooting two more at this target because I felt it was as perfect as I would ever be lucky enough to shoot so pulled that paper and shot another (five) shot group, roughly 2 MOA plus a flyer, felt good went home.
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Today, after work, same everything, shot four shots, a diagonal string from low left to high right. In the past this has been due to loose gas plug, poor shooting technique, and something else which I was not able to identify, it just "went away". Until today.
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A little bit ago, after searching the forum for any posts relating to band/ferrule contact I checked to see if everything lined up consistently after shots (looking for wear marks etc..)

While pressing things around I was pretty surprised to see the bottom weld was broke. For sure this must defeat the purpose of a Unitized Cylinder, even though top weld is OK.
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As a welder I know things break, so I'll take it to a buddy who welded a front sight for me once (TIG), and have him fix it. He is a competition shooter and recently built a rail gun among other things so he is a real perfectionist.

Feel free to weigh in with thoughts to confirm my suspicions on how this could be my problem, even though it returns to same spot I would think as heat causes expansion it would change barrel return position and would not be something I would have caught at the range from shot to shot.

Added; recently tried a second box of M-852 with poor results, saying what the heck to myself I hung a target at 200 yards and without any come-up shot a five round string. 3/5 cloverleafed and one cut bottom of target, couldn't find the last one.
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I don't want to "waste" the last 420 rounds in the can so I've been holding onto it thinking about a rifle "worthy enough" to shoot it. Maybe this is it after getting GC fixed or replaced.

I did hear back from CP (gunsmith) and once my buddy gets back to our little island we'll clean it up and reweld with low heat (spot weld obviously, as before)

Thanks from tonyben and boomerpusher

Last edited by gettinolder; April 28th, 2017 at 07:01 AM. Reason: Added pictures, more information
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Old April 28th, 2017, 02:14 AM   #2
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Interesting.
Haven't had a weld break on any of mine yet.
Guess that is just another thing we need to keep an eye on.
Thanks for the information.

Semper Fi
Art

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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:09 AM   #3
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I would think unitizing by the screw method would be more reliable & popular than welding. Just IMHO...

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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:10 AM   #4
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Refresh my memory. Is the same gas cylinder that was giving you leaks around the barrel and gas lock? Is it an SAI factory unitized gas cylinder or was it done locally?

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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:10 AM   #5
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Yes, that would definitely bugger things up! Looking forward to seeing the results once it's fixed.

Tony.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 04:15 AM   #6
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I hope this get you back on target, I know this has been a pain in your rear for a while now. Looking forward to reading the end results of this endeavor.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtC View Post
Refresh my memory. Is the same gas cylinder that was giving you leaks around the barrel and gas lock? Is it an SAI factory unitized gas cylinder or was it done locally?
Yes Kurt, same one. Done in Wasilla/Palmer area by a guy who's done quite a few for CP over the years.

Not SAI

Don't know if I told you this but after only a few shots piston stops sliding freely, once back home and things cooled off slides again.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:13 AM   #8
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Kind of sounds like the cylinder is warping when it gets hot, that could have cause the weld to break as well.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:13 AM   #9
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[/URL]

Not the same drawer he pulled the GC out of but you can see he's "tinkered" with this platform for awhile....(understatement), and I think a good number on this forum would know him from shooting competition around the country.

He could use a little prayer from all of us, still not mobile (staph infection artificial knee, slow in recovery and healing), his wife, who is his nurse, had open heart surgery last week, other sundry challenges as well.

I sure hate seeing everybody get old.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:14 AM   #10
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I think it sure is a possibility (Wasted Ammo)

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Old April 28th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #11
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Hopefully one of the USMC armorers here will chime in, but I don't believe you are supposed to weld at the bottom hole. There is too much flex in that area. I believe the welds are only supposed to go around the barrel opening.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

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Old April 28th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #12
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it varies per individual. the ones at brownells are welded inside the upper barrel hole. i have seen some welded around the outside top of the ferrule and some welded top outside and bottom outside all the way around.screw and glue method does not mess with ferule hardness.if you have issues with ferrule,you can duplicate orig holes and replace it w/out too much trouble.

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