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Bedding with stock liners..

This is a discussion on Bedding with stock liners.. within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; The M1 garands did not have stock liners, the wooden M14 stocks did have metal stock liners. They were there for a purpose, anyone remember ...


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Old April 13th, 2017, 09:51 AM   #1
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Bedding with stock liners..

The M1 garands did not have stock liners, the wooden M14 stocks did have metal stock liners. They were there for a purpose, anyone remember what it was?

When Match conditioning first began on the M14 rifles the liners were removed and epoxied back into place.. The liner screws wlll not do the job for very long by them selves This mod was followed by routing behind the rear legs of the liner to add support, this was a very big improvement..

As modifications progressed early on, it became apparent that some receivers fit the liner saddle better that others.. Those that had a snug fit were modified by rounding bottom of the rear legs and rounding the top the liner for ease insertion and extraction. This snug fit condition was of the "best mods" to be introduced... It still is the best, because the recoil surfaces are metal on metal, backed by supporting bedding material.. The Marines always used liners to my knowledge

It was also discovered that the bedding material was not the best choice for an epoxy, there were better bonding mateials available. This resulted in using the better epoxy [bonding] materials in place of the bedding material to secure the liners, they were not always the same color materials.

At some point the idea of cutting the saddle of the liner to allow space for bedding material came about, it was a very poorer choice, the loose fitting receivers can be corrected by tweeking the legs to get the desired fit..

Once the liner has been cut for a thin layer, approx 1/8" at best, for the bedding material, which is located between the recoil surfaces of the receiver and liner,,, the battering of recoil does it's work on the bedding, add shrikage, and the receiver fit is not as secure as the metal to metal fit, not even close..

Don't remember how many times I've seen bedding material chip out of this important area. Adding new mateial to the chipped out area solves little and is not the solution.

I decided to write this becasue some folks are quick to make assumptions and assertions , claiming they have been shorted if the liner is not cut, even less informed folks see two different matreials if thay remove the rifle from the stock. I will not try to address that..

Hope this is not offensive, but rather informative... Keep in mind, these Matched conditioned M14's were built as "Across the Course" rifles, some later became Sniper Rifles.. Art

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Old April 13th, 2017, 12:00 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by art luppino View Post
The M1 garands did not have stock liners, the wooden M14 stocks did have metal stock liners. They were there for a purpose, anyone remember what it was?
I don't know all the ins and outs of bedding, but the reason for the stock liner on the M14 was simply to extend the life of the stock on the theory that in the hands of GI Joe taking the receiver in and out thousands of times steel on steel would wear better than steel on wood....also you have increased the surface area of the wood that the recoil bears on.


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Old April 14th, 2017, 09:23 AM   #3
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A few basic bedding questions, I will add the disclaimer that I do not know much about bedding rifles.

1. Does the metal stock liner take the place of glass bedding?

2. I take it that using a metal liner also makes it easier to disassemble the rifle if necessary vs tearing it out of the bedding?

3. Are metal liners or bedding only worth it for rear-lugged receivers?

4. Are metal liners still in prevalent use?

5. Have metal liners been used with synthetic stocks like a USGI or McMillan fiberglass?

6. Has aluminum ever been used for metal liners?

Thanks in advance.

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Old April 14th, 2017, 10:01 AM   #4
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I can answer most of these questions.
1. The metal liner does not take the place of glass bedding. It is however used only in standard weight stocks and not the heavy oversized stocks. It's a re-enforcement in the rather thin standard stocks.
2. It makes no difference as to the ease of field stripping the rifle. Note the Garand did not have a liner.
3. Rear lugged receiver should be bedded into heavy stocks. Stocks tend to crack behind the lugs with or without the liner unless a much beefier stock is used.
4. Metal liners are used in all standard stocks.
5. No.
6. Aluminum is not used for M14 stock liners.

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Old April 14th, 2017, 07:09 PM   #5
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Good post Art, Ted and Lysander.

Seems I read somewhere that the liner was also meant to help the stock cracking problem, under full auto fire.

I have a selection of liners pre-cut and ready for bedding that came from military stores and caches. I will try to find time to post pics tomorrow if I can.

Not sure if they are from AMU or Marine big teams. Came with a load of g.i. stocks I got from my PR guy gtostokes32.

He got them from a deceased guys estate. Maybe he will chime in if he has further info on this particular style and their origins, or maybe Art or Ted will recognize them.

What's weird, is they mimic what I did 50 years later on mine, without ever having seen it or hearing of it before. They have the shark tooth cuts in them that I used, and thought I invented it on Bambans rifle.

The idea came to me when trying to figure out how to best increase the available surface area of bedding around the legs and liner, without losing the support of the steel like Art said.
Strange feeling when I saw them, like someone in the past was speaking to me..... Eerie

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Old April 17th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #6
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The military did contract for the manufacture of pre-cut NM stock liners. I have installed a few and they work fine... except the bedding still doesn't hold up well between the receiver legs and the cut liner. Expect about 1200 rounds (or less depending on the compound used) before the bedding starts to come apart in that area.

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Old April 17th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #7
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So, a question from an amateur. Why aren't the receiver legs and stock liner designed with an arc, the center point being the front barrel band? Seems like it would make for a full tight fit, easy insertion, and prolonged life.

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Old April 19th, 2017, 08:04 AM   #8
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So, a question from an amateur. Why aren't the receiver legs and stock liner designed with an arc, the center point being the front barrel band? Seems like it would make for a full tight fit, easy insertion, and prolonged life.
You know, that is a brilliant idea. It actually is, sort of. JCG thought about all that before too. How to get ease of insertion and disassembly for the average soldier.

The back of the receiver legs have a 3 degree angle to them. If you changed the angle straight cut to an arc, (radius) and made the center of the circle the ferrule and barrel band bottom lip, it would actually look close to the existing 3 degree straight cuts, because it would be such a wide sweeping arc.

Without digging through and getting my stock blueprints out, it would be roughly a 17.25" radius from the BB lip.....to the outside edge, or back of the liner top, and 17.1875" to the bottom, back edge and of the liner.

Good thinking though. Shows you are paying attention. Great minds think alike.

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Old April 19th, 2017, 10:04 AM   #9
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The receivers were not designed for ease of dismounting when glass bedded. The M14 was first a battle rifle. Some armorers would grind a slight bevel on the back of the receiver legs to ease assembly, but I haven't found it necessary. Constant disassembly will loosen the bedding no mater what. Filling the cut liner with bedding compound was expedient and the military had plenty of armorers and time to repair deteriorating bedding. It gets to be an expensive proposition for civilians.

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Old April 19th, 2017, 06:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripsaw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck Yankee View Post
So, a question from an amateur. Why aren't the receiver legs and stock liner designed with an arc, the center point being the front barrel band? Seems like it would make for a full tight fit, easy insertion, and prolonged life.
You know, that is a brilliant idea. It actually is, sort of. JCG thought about all that before too. How to get ease of insertion and disassembly for the average soldier.

The back of the receiver legs have a 3 degree angle to them. If you changed the angle straight cut to an arc, (radius) and made the center of the circle the ferrule and barrel band bottom lip, it would actually look close to the existing 3 degree straight cuts, because it would be such a wide sweeping arc.

Without digging through and getting my stock blueprints out, it would be roughly a 17.25" radius from the BB lip.....to the outside edge, or back of the liner top, and 17.1875" to the bottom, back edge and of the liner.

Good thinking though. Shows you are paying attention. Great minds think alike.
Not really a good idea, sorry.

If you look carefully, the design is better than an arc, the legs are cut to act as a wedge.

When you pivot the receiver about the front ferrule, when inserting the receiver, the rear legs will wedge into the stock liner (or stock in the Garand). When you rotate it out, the legs break contact all at once.

With an arc, it would have to slide the entire length of the liner.... this will do two things: 1) make removing the receiver more difficult, as contact would be maintained the entire length, and 2) increase the chance of damaging the bedding.

Here is how it works (angles exaggerated for clarity, the center of the circle is the front ferrule):



The angles are very slight and will actually lock the receiver in the bedding (since bedding is a tighter fit that the metal stock liner). These angles act just like a Morse taper


Last edited by lysander; April 19th, 2017 at 07:05 PM.
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