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gurus of accuracy

This is a discussion on gurus of accuracy within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; You know who you are. You are the folks who write about sub-MOA shooting, all gunsmith things M14/M1A, have worked on more M14/M1A-types than most ...


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  • 7 Post By art luppino
  • 1 Post By Douglas Haig
  • 2 Post By Random Guy
  • 1 Post By Ted Brown
  • 1 Post By ripsaw
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Old April 6th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #1
Lifer
 
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gurus of accuracy

You know who you are. You are the folks who write about sub-MOA shooting, all gunsmith things M14/M1A, have worked on more M14/M1A-types than most armories have, and can recall & recite details like nobody's business. Not an all inclusive list but names Art, Tony, Ted, Kurt and many, many more.

First and foremost - My sincere thanks! Your willingness to share has saved me many hours and put my understanding at a level I would never have gotten if I was left to find answers elsewhere.

Secondly and the reason for this thread:
When you pick up an M14/M1A-type someone wants accurized can you tell things without having shot it? I know most of us could spot a rubbing handguard or loose gas plug. But do you almost instinctively know what to try first by just laying hands on?
Or is there a list of "try this next" in your head that you follow almost without exception?
Or do you need to shot it first before you even consider how to attack the beast?




Just curious.

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Old April 6th, 2017, 11:56 AM   #2
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Don't know about the Gurue business,but:

There are a number of things that can be checked quickly without complete dissembely that will provide info as to expected accuracy.

Check the rear sight for aperture wobble and pressued depression. Turn the knobs 8 to 10 clicks wartch the movement for proper movement.

Rack the bolt for smooth, normal movement. At the same time look to see if the bolt is entering the pre chamber cleanly, with no side impact, this is a biggie..

Depress the barrel at the FB area to see if there is free movement down, and that it springs back up. Than the same depression over the opt rod guide area to see if guilde is bottoming out.

Un-latch the TG and check for any signs of draw pressuer to close.

Snap the trigger several times to feel the hooks release cleanlng, even if it is a heavy trigger. Remove the TH and check the four hooks for modifications done improperly..

While the TG is out look at the back of the rec. houseshoe for bolt battering ..

Check the stock for cracks, look close at the area between the FB and gas blead out hole, this area has cracks many times.

Look to see if the F band barrel are of equal distance to both sides of the front band.. Not angled of to one side.

Very important to check the cam surface for the firing pin for mods, move the bolt back and forth and watch for proper action of trigger tang moving in and out outo f cam slot..

Check for proper mag fit and release..

There are others I've overlooked, but this is good start.. Art

Thanks from 2336USMC, nf1e, Nytro and 4 others
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Old April 6th, 2017, 02:41 PM   #3
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Don't forget the bench stuff. Sand bags, tripod, heel support, maybe a Lead sled. This stuff can make big difference especially with those random flyers.

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Old April 10th, 2017, 06:42 AM   #4
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So Art sounds like you work from a checklist of sorts, mental or written down. Thank you for the list you provided above!!!

Douglas Haig, Thank you for the input. I think we all agree a lot of accuracy is shooter issues as well as the setup: bench v. prone v. sled etc... style of shooting being done. And indeed on sled will result in better shots than a B-brand but I'm really more thinking/asking about how do the M14-type Experts know what to address on the weapon itself.


Anyone else?


Are there any who just pick it up and the scruffy M14-type speaks to them and says what it needs?

Like magic?

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Old April 10th, 2017, 07:46 AM   #5
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Well, I'm not an accuracy guru, but if its a used rifle M1A with a commercial 308W barrel, it won't hurt to spend 5 seconds to retract the bolt and use a proper 308W throat erosion gauge to see what it says. If it shows wear over 5 or so on the proper gauge, one can quickly gather that the barrel is kind-of high-mileage and accuracy may be dropping off...but I assume this is common knowledge. It definitely ain't magic.

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Last edited by Random Guy; April 10th, 2017 at 08:53 AM.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 10:50 AM   #6
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I've built a lot of accurate M14 rifles over the last 40 years. That said, those that shoot under 3/4 of an inch or even one inch are not the norm. They are exceptional for the M14 system and may be said to be few and far between. I haven't found any way to pre determine how a rifle will shoot. The proof is in the results once it's completed. Sometimes I get a feeling, while assembling a rifle, that everything is going together as perfectly as possible. Those rifles often shoot better than expected. Ammunition plays an important part in it too. I do my accuracy testing with GI LC M118. I don't consider this to be the equal of M852, M118LR, or good handloads, but I've found that a rifle that shoots well can keeps groups to about an inch or under with M118. Even then, M118 has been around a long time and out of production since 1980 or so. There is lots of that stuff that has not been stored properly, some lots are better than others, and one should not expect it will always give the best accuracy.

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Old April 10th, 2017, 12:16 PM   #7
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I don't know what guru means and don't use google.

But I do know how to make an M14 shoot to it's full potential.
Other than what Art Luppino posted, and Random Guy (gauges are your friend) , not much more you can know, like Ted said, without shooting it.

I can only assume you are asking because of wanting to know how to determine one may shoot accurately at a gun show, gun shop, individual sale, etc.....before buying?

Hard to do, or know. But the gauges can be a pretty good indicator and help to you. All the rest can be fixed, but barrels are pricey. So is re-barreling and/or accurizing, unless you do it yourself.

Or, as Mel Gibson said in We were soldiers...."You have to be where the metal meets the meat."

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