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Can't seem to beat 3 MOA

This is a discussion on Can't seem to beat 3 MOA within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Ammoholic I've decided to try shimming the trigger group to improve trigger lock up in hope to increase draw pressure. ... -------------------------- ...


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Old April 16th, 2017, 07:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammoholic View Post
I've decided to try shimming the trigger group to improve trigger lock up in hope to increase draw pressure.
...
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Without shims, if closing the trigger guard pulls the rear of the receiver firmly against the stock, then increasing the lock up pressure won't help the draw.

To increase the draw, short shims (~ 1 inch) are needed under the rails of the forward part of the receiver to cause the receiver to tilt upwards when the trigger guard is closed.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

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Old April 16th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #17
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Make sense. I've noticed no draw pressure difference with the shims on the trigger group.

I can't shim the front part of the stock right now because of the connector hole. I am thinking about either filling that hole are getting another wood stock made for a semi auto.

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Old April 16th, 2017, 10:12 AM   #18
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You have been offered a lot of good advice. I am sure that a portion of the problem is the rifle. But as others have recommended, Have Someone Else Shoot the Rifle!!!!!
Most shooters assume there is something wrong with the rifle. If you are not on the range regularly and disciplined in how you shoot you cannot expect 1/2 MOA.
Look at yourself as well as the rifle.

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Old April 16th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ammoholic View Post
He gave me a report and told me my chamber measures 1.638 thou.
That's pretty long; at field reject point. Does it still have the Chicom bolt in it? If so, I would be looking at a GI bolt conversion, or if not, a barrel to get it back to 1.635 to 1.636.

For some good reading on headspace, see Gus Fisher's thread: A little bit of everything to do with headspace.

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Old April 17th, 2017, 07:34 PM   #20
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Update

I'm back from the range, the sun reflected on the apperture sight making it harder to get a proper sight picture and it felt like I was wasting my time but I managed to get one good group. All groups were used with 168gr SMK shot at 100 yard with iron sights on a bench with a sandbag and measured in inches center to center 10 shot group. All brass are 7,62x51 winchester.

From left to right is 41,42 and 43gr of IMR 4895.



I'm somewhat ok with the group on the left considering the weather condition but the other I'm not happy with. Good for me, I'll save on powder.

Next I tried BLC2 and it didn't look promising at first but I think I have found some potential with that powder. There's one flyer and I'm not sure what happened there. Powder weight from left to right is 44, 44.5, 45 and 45.5gr.



I had no idea that with everything equal but the powder weight you could get that much difference! I'm pretty happy with that group, it's a stock norinco after all.
With both powder I noticed that the rifle prefer milder load. I'm definetly ok with that. I'll work with BLC2 some more and see if I can get similar or hopefully better group.
I noticed since I install the sadlak mount that I sometimes get brass casing stuck between the oprod and receiver, right on the case head. 44.5gr of IMR 4895 with 125gr had 5 of those stoppages on 10 rounds and 44gr of BLC2 had 2 within one 5 round group.
I have different ejection pattern depending on the charge weight. Most of the brass landed at 2 o'clock but some did at 3.
The mount was install as per instruction and it sits parallel to the bore.

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Old April 17th, 2017, 07:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammoholic View Post
I'm back from the range, the sun reflected on the apperture sight making it harder to get a proper sight picture and it felt like I was wasting my time but I managed to get one good group. All groups were used with 168gr SMK shot at 100 yard with iron sights on a bench with a sandbag and measured in inches center to center 10 shot group. All brass are 7,62x51 winchester.

From left to right is 41,42 and 43gr of IMR 4895.



I'm somewhat ok with the group on the left considering the weather condition but the other I'm not happy with. Good for me, I'll save on powder.

Next I tried BLC2 and it didn't look promising at first but I think I have found some potential with that powder. There's one flyer and I'm not sure what happened there. Powder weight from left to right is 44, 44.5, 45 and 45.5gr.



I had no idea that with everything equal but the powder weight you could get that much difference! I'm pretty happy with that group, it's a stock norinco after all.
With both powder I noticed that the rifle prefer milder load. I'm definetly ok with that. I'll work with BLC2 some more and see if I can get similar or hopefully better group.
I noticed since I install the sadlak mount that I sometimes get brass casing stuck between the oprod and receiver, right on the case head. 44.5gr of IMR 4895 with 125gr had 5 of those stoppages on 10 rounds and 44gr of BLC2 had 2 within one 5 round group.
I have different ejection pattern depending on the charge weight. Most of the brass landed at 2 o'clock but some did at 3.
The mount was install as per instruction and it sits parallel to the bore.

very good! keep at it and try downloading some? MY rifle likes 40.0 of H4895 with 168's AMaxes

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Old April 17th, 2017, 07:47 PM   #22
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OP?

You ever thought of trying 39.0. 39.5, 40.0, 40.5. 41 again?

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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:12 PM   #23
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That's a good suggestion, looks like down is the way to go.
The reloading manual I used was modern reloading and they list 44 gr of BLC2 as a starting load and 40gr of IMR 4895 as a starting load. My lyman 49th edition starting load are lower than Lee's, I think it's 37 for IMR 4895 but I'll check tomorrow.

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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ammoholic View Post
That's a good suggestion, looks like down is the way to go.
The reloading manual I used was modern reloading and they list 44 gr of BLC2 as a starting load and 40gr of IMR 4895 as a starting load. My lyman 49th edition starting load are lower than Lee's, I think it's 37 for IMR 4895 but I'll check tomorrow.

do am on-line search here for 7.62 loads and look for John Coleman's work...

Thanks from Ammoholic
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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:22 PM   #25
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OP, did anyone suggest using military style (6MOA black center) targets with open sight shooting?

Those orange/white targets seem hard to see with irons.

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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:41 PM   #26
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I was using what was available at the time but I'll keep an eye open for those black target. I know the pistol range on base have black square and they line up great with irons but the square is 2.5 or 3 inch wide.

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