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Modifying Rifles to Improve Accuracy

This is a discussion on Modifying Rifles to Improve Accuracy within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; The AR 15 has to be more accurate than the M14 because it takes 3 or more shots on target to even come close to ...


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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:01 AM   #16
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The AR 15 has to be more accurate than the M14 because it takes 3 or more shots on target to even come close to the effect of the M14. Humor. Paper punching excluded.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:44 AM   #17
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Smile Old vs New

Howdy Buckeroos,

To increase accuracy in an AR platform it is mostly a matter of swapping parts, pretty much anyone with the IQ of a squirrel can do it.

The M14 clones require some parts swapping, which most of us can do.
It also needs changes that require some degree of skill: glass bedding, re-barreling and so on.

Being a klutz, on my national match rifles, it was a matter of swapping a couple of parts and dropping them into JAE stocks.
This is by no means a method of making a tack driver out of the rifles - it is a matter of my lack of expertise.

It is a matter of what you need/want.
For a ragged hole rifle I will take a bolt action.

For something that always goes boom, looks and feels great, I will take the M14 "platform".

No AR makes the sweet sound the receiver in your M14 clone makes when you fire it.

I have owned, and sold off, many AR's over the years: AR-15's, AR-180's (Sterling), FAL's, HK91's and one of the few Armalite (Dutch) AR-10's that were imported into the U.S. (the importer turned in the lowers and made new ones - a slick rifle).

They are just not M14 type rifles.

I do wear a belt and suspenders.

Keep yer powder dry,

John

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Old March 16th, 2017, 04:54 AM   #18
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I'm just glad this forum is here. I didn't need a forum to build my ARs.... working on my M1A, Garand and BM59 was another story lol

Russ

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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:13 AM   #19
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Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread.

I started this thread after reading many other threads about match conditioning and some of the quirks of this rifle. Stuff like bedding the action in the stocks, different types of stocks/chassis, switching out parts, etc. Then I read about the really quirky stuff like shimming the gas system, unitized gas cylinders, going through a box of pistons to find that ONE, amount of torque on the gas plug, etc. I started wondering if the M14/M1A is the most difficult to make more accurate or if other semi-autos are just as "quirky".

I had to take a look at my own M1A and think hard about what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go with it, and how much time and effort I wanted to put in. I eventually decided that I was not going to try to go to the Camp Perry matches or try to get it so that 5 rounds all go through the same hole. My skill level probably means I couldn't do that even with a rifle conditioned to do so. I decided there was a "good enough" level for me. To that end, I did the following:

1. Replaced Springfield spring guide with a Sadlak NM
2. Replaced Springfield gas plug with a Shuster vented
3. Replaced Springfield polymer stock with USGI fiberglass
4. Replaced Springfield gas piston with Sadlak NM TiN (no groove)
5. Shimmed the gas system
6. Used a Dremel to open up the stock ferrule and cleared some material from the stock behind it
7. Reinforced forearm of the stock with carbon fiber strips

This has gotten me to where I am happy and I am content to leave things this way. The last time I shot, I managed to put three rounds in a group 1.4 inches in diameter. That's the extent of my skill level right now. I know there is more that can be done, but I think I have reached the limit of my (limited) gunsmithing skills and the time I want to invest in the project.

Again, thank you to everyone for contributing. As an earlier post stated, I would also have had much more difficulty working on M1As were it not for the wisdom and generosity of this forum.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:16 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by lysander View Post
But, it its service rifle form, it did show better inherent accuracy than the FAL.

One wonders, however, what we would be doing today, had the scales tipped the other way in 1957. . . . Attempting to wring sub-MOA accuracy out of a FAL?
An interesting piece of alternative history. What if the T48 was selected over the T44 and what would we be doing with our FALs to improve accuracy? Interesting thread to pull. I would think the first mod we would make would be to move the rear sight forward of where the weapon opens up for maintenance. Having the front and rear sights on two separate pieces probably doesn't help.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:23 AM   #21
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Try that with a FAL, or HK-91. When was the last time you saw a FAL or HK-91 at a 1,000 yard match? A Druganov? I've never heard of it.

Tony.
I have seen on dragunov dot net forums where people have tried to compare the Dragunov to the M14. The first problem is that it's not a valid comparison since the two rifles were built for different purposes. The second is that real, actual Dragunovs are difficult to come by in the US. The third problem is that people end up substituting a PSL for the Dragunov and then the conversation rapidly degenerates. Ever fire a PSL? A friend let me shoot his. I did not like it, very uncomfortable to shoot.

I'll admit that I have never heard of FAL or HK-91/PTR-91 competitions. Has anyone?

At my gun club, we have a Swiss rifle/pistol league and they shoot matches. All the rifle shooters use K11s or K31s. I asked if anyone used the SIG 556. They said some have tried but they are horribly outclassed. I wondered why because I thought the Swiss always made very accurate stuff. Then I found out the SIG 556 is not made in Switzerland and it is not quite made the same way here in the US.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 08:32 AM   #22
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Probably ~10 years ago there was a guy on Calguns who built custom target FALs. I remember one that had a bull barrel and was chambered in 243. So where there is a will there is a way.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 12:35 PM   #23
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AR-types have no soul

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Old March 16th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #24
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AR-types have no soul
Neither does the M1A.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by noob14s View Post
Neither does the M1A.
Heresy! Go wash your mouth out, er fingers, with soap.

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Old March 16th, 2017, 02:30 PM   #26
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Anybody can drive down to Mkey D's and satisfy your hunger.

But when you have a hot date who is just craving some filet mignon, you know where to go. Might take more time and encouragement, you know both her and you will be much more satisfied afterwards.

Thanks from tonyben
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by alseides View Post
I have seen on dragunov dot net forums where people have tried to compare the Dragunov to the M14. The first problem is that it's not a valid comparison since the two rifles were built for different purposes. The second is that real, actual Dragunovs are difficult to come by in the US. The third problem is that people end up substituting a PSL for the Dragunov and then the conversation rapidly degenerates. Ever fire a PSL? A friend let me shoot his. I did not like it, very uncomfortable to shoot.

I'll admit that I have never heard of FAL or HK-91/PTR-91 competitions. Has anyone?

At my gun club, we have a Swiss rifle/pistol league and they shoot matches. All the rifle shooters use K11s or K31s. I asked if anyone used the SIG 556. They said some have tried but they are horribly outclassed. I wondered why because I thought the Swiss always made very accurate stuff. Then I found out the SIG 556 is not made in Switzerland and it is not quite made the same way here in the US.
Not intending to sidetrack the thread but I remember seeing REAL Soviet Dragunovs in Shotgun News back around 1993 when I first got my C&R license. Have NEVER seen them since the mid-90's in the C&R periodicals and catalogs and even when I do see them now in other sales forums they are in the $4,000-$5,000 range.

Regards,
Badger

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Old March 16th, 2017, 06:54 PM   #28
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Ease of modification it's the AR as everbody said.
M14 vs G3 in the $3-5k range m14 wins. Not a whole lot to be done for the G3, polygonal barrel and psg1 set trigger but still prolly below the m14 accuracy wise.

If money is no object the G3 platform wins hands down.
The SR9t moa'ish
MSG90 sub moa
PSG1 considered as close to bolt action accuracy in a semi.

Just because you don't see it at a rife competition only means you have a chance. Wink')

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