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Help needed - flyers with 10 rd mags??

This is a discussion on Help needed - flyers with 10 rd mags?? within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Yahoo Hello Forum, I'm looking for some ideas. My M1A has been a great shooter, until I got some 10rds mags for ...


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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post
Hello Forum, I'm looking for some ideas.

My M1A has been a great shooter, until I got some 10rds mags for match shooting.

Shooting sighters in a match recently, X, 10, 10, X, 6 at 6. ??

Loaded a single round in the same mag and shot an extra; 6 at 6.

Thought rear site had spun - had not.

The rifle does not seem to like the 10rd mags. The last shot out of the mag flies, low.

Any suggestions as to what to look for?

These 10rd mags are a tight fit in the mag well and take some effort to get locked in. Some of my 20rds mags are quite loose and even can rattle a bit while locked in.

Yahoo
I am using state mandated 10 rd mags now in my SM but did like my 20 rounders much better as I only loaded 10 in them and they seemed to group better than my 10 rounder loading five... They were well used and much smoother and less spring tension?

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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:59 PM   #17
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Is there a reason the OP wants to use 10 rounders? I always used 20's in matches.

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Old March 6th, 2017, 08:02 PM   #18
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Quit using GGG to check accuracy. You are just chasing your tail. Pick up a couple of boxes of FGMM or M1A OTM.

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Old March 9th, 2017, 03:21 PM   #19
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Magazines

If you have checked everything else on the rifle try this.

Take the 20 round magazine that shoots well. Measure from the top rear of the magazine to the top of the locking tab, then measure top rear of magazine to bottom of tab lastly measure how thick the locking tab is. You then take the same measurement at the front where the op rod spring guide engages the magazine. When taking these use something across the top of the feed lips for the rear measurements. When you are done take the same measurements on the 10 rounder, you will most likely find a difference.

If there is you may be able to adjust using a file with a safe side. This has worked for me before. As little as .037 made a difference on a few magazines I had.

If there is no difference look at spring pressure and follower differences. Other than that practice more.

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Old March 9th, 2017, 04:29 PM   #20
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Did not see an answer to post #5.

What brand mags? Quality USGI or CMI or cheap stuff?

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Old March 9th, 2017, 06:51 PM   #21
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WXI

I didn't either but have had issues with CNI and others.

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Old March 9th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #22
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Based on the two pics of your reloads, the "dropped" flyer doesn't seem to happen. Your GGG surplus is a 6 to 10 MOA group....well, I wouldn't blame the mags based on what you are showing us.

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Old March 10th, 2017, 02:36 AM   #23
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With the last round in the chamber, the mag follower is no longer taking up all the slack by pushing the bolt up in its "float", especially at the rear. The round in the chamber is thus in a different starting position on ignition.

Either the 10 rounder's follower is not coming up as high as the 20, or the spring unloads more when the mag is empty. Just the fact that the spring is shorter would make it unload more.

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Old March 10th, 2017, 08:10 AM   #24
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If the low shot happens on both 10 & 20 mags all the time, try stretching out their springs a bit (this is only a temporary test but might help troubleshoot).

If you swap followers between the 10 & 20 rounders does the low shot stay with the 10 round mag body or does it follow the 10 follower? If the low shot follows the follower, use a 20 round follower in the 10 body.

If low shot stays with the mag body, put a 20 round spring in the 10 round mag for testing. Does that lift the last shot? Maybe the 10 springs are not giving enough push anymore.

What happens to POI if you hand load rounds?

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Old March 10th, 2017, 08:19 AM   #25
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For an M1A at 100yds, thats a pitiful grouping.

One of two things is going on here.

Either:

You have really crappy ammo

or

Your bench setup needs a lot of help.

If your shooting for accuracy test you need support at both the front and
rear of your rifle and not just wood blocks and a piece of rug.

My box stock standard M1A with a good commercial rest and a leather sand filled bag shoots 10's at 100yds all day long.

Yes, I do use my own reloads but even with winchester standard ammo it does the same.

One other note: Have you paid attention to cleaning the gas system and setting it up properly?

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Old March 12th, 2017, 10:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1A's r BEST View Post
I remember reading, years ago, that one of the things the service rifle team shooters were told to do was to take some magazines out and shoot groups. Any magazines that "caused flyers", or the group to open up, where discarded and the shooters chose magazines from the ones the rifle fired good groups with.

I asked an old Navy Team shooter I used to work with/talk with sometimes about that and he said he'd heard that, too, but he stuck with an M1 so he had not experienced it (short arms and the magazine of the M14 got in the way of his support arm.)
Disregard

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Old March 19th, 2017, 07:22 PM   #27
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OK, had a chance to go out Friday morning to troubleshoot the fliers again.

Had one target where shots 4 and 5 were 8" and 12" below POI with handloads.

I will be testing a theory that long COAL reloads may get necks bent coming out of the mag resulting in a low flier.

Stand by.

Yahoo

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Old March 19th, 2017, 07:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puccini View Post
For an M1A at 100yds, thats a pitiful grouping.

One of two things is going on here.

Either:

You have really crappy ammo

or

Your bench setup needs a lot of help.

If your shooting for accuracy test you need support at both the front and
rear of your rifle and not just wood blocks and a piece of rug.

My box stock standard M1A with a good commercial rest and a leather sand filled bag shoots 10's at 100yds all day long.

Yes, I do use my own reloads but even with winchester standard ammo it does the same.

One other note: Have you paid attention to cleaning the gas system and setting it up properly?
Puccini, agreed, those are crummy groups.

And yes, the GGG Nato is not the best grouping ammo.

Until I eliminate the low fliers, i will not be wasting many handloads.

I believe my technique is pretty solid, unless the M14 is a different animal alltogether.

Please elaborate on the gas system cleaning/setup comment.

Yahoo

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Old March 20th, 2017, 06:26 AM   #29
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I think I would have bought a new CMI 10 round mag by now (or 20 if you prefer). I only use my 2 10 rd mags.

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Old March 20th, 2017, 06:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1A's r BEST View Post
I remember reading, years ago, that one of the things the service rifle team shooters were told to do was to take some magazines out and shoot groups. Any magazines that "caused flyers", or the group to open up, where discarded and the shooters chose magazines from the ones the rifle fired good groups with.........
I did this for years and marked the magazines. I also had a magazine designated for loading single rounds.

If I suspected a magazine caused inconsistent pressure on the bottom of the bolt and shifted POI, I would change out the magazine spring or maybe move a follower from a known good magazine to the 10 round magazine and fire a few groups.

I am anxious to learn how the OP sorts this out.

Thanks from Dougboffl and Yahoo

Last edited by CHARLIED308; March 20th, 2017 at 07:07 AM.
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