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Shootingsight trigger and lightened hammer review

This is a discussion on Shootingsight trigger and lightened hammer review within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I was looking to upgrade my trigger and recently purchased the NM set from Shootingsight: http://shop.shootingsight.com/NM-M14...Hammer-Set.htm The set includes close tolerance hammer and trigger pins. ...


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Old February 10th, 2017, 09:27 AM   #1
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Shootingsight trigger and lightened hammer review

I was looking to upgrade my trigger and recently purchased the NM set from Shootingsight:
http://shop.shootingsight.com/NM-M14...Hammer-Set.htm

The set includes close tolerance hammer and trigger pins. In comparison to the GI trigger/hammer/pins assembly the difference is noticeable. Everything went into my HR trigger housing without any issue.

Setting up the trigger pull was very easy following the directions. The trigger pull will be somewhere around 4-1/2 to 4-3/4 pounds. According to the directions trying to adjust the weight below that amount will affect reliability.

Both my LRB M14 and Garand have trigger jobs that were done by an older club member that has been building Garands for years. They both have pulls that were a few ounces less than 5 pounds to insure meeting NRA match standards. After several thousand rounds and hours of dryfire they are at 4-3/4 lbs. So I will use them to compare/contrast the Shootingsight set.

The Shootingsight trigger meets the advertised claim "no creep whatsoever". On GI triggers the 1st stage/2nd stage pull weight are usually 50/50, so for example a 4-1/2 lb pull will have around 2-1/4 lbs first stage and additional 2-1/4 final. The Shootingsight trigger has more weight and slightly longer pull in the 1st stage, but a very nice, very short, 2nd stage pull. As I said, no perceptible trigger creep at all.

The lightened hammer is designed to reduce the swingtime from trigger pull to hitting the firing pin. The lock time is supposed to be as quick as the AR15, and possibly improving your score in the standing "offhand" position. In theory your offhand "wobble zone" will have less impact on your score since the rifle fires sooner, before the rifle wobbles off target. In comparing my scores offhand, I do score 5 to 6 points higher with the AR vs M14. I shoot mostly the M14 in XTC but always attributed the score difference to reduced recoil and better ergonomics of the AR.

In conclusion, I didn't keep the trigger/hammer set. Perhaps I had expected the professionally done trigger job to be vastly superior to one performed by a hobbiest. I did not actually fire the new hammer/trigger. I tried several hours of dryfire in position comparing both and the modest improvement was not worth it to me. Art at Shootingsight stands behind his product and aims for 100% customer satisfaction. He was gracious enough to offer a full refund on return.

Now if this was compared to a stock Springfield M1A or GI trigger, the difference would be night and day-reduced pull and no creep. This set, or even just the NM trigger alone is an excellent choice for someone that doesn't have access to a gunsmith capable of providing a quality trigger job. I would highly recommend Shootingsights trigger and his other products that I have purchased from him in the past, such as the Garand reduced apertures or the rectangular NM hooded aperture.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg trigger1.jpg (22.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg trigger2.jpg (26.2 KB, 24 views)

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Last edited by smoothy8500; February 11th, 2017 at 07:06 AM.
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Old February 10th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #2
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I bought a set and installed it on my M1 Special Grade. It was vastly better than what CMP had installed. I think it's a keeper. The reason I gave this a try was shooting deer off hand with a 7 lb trigger is really dumb.

On my EBR build, I had Ted Brown stone my trigger group which was also a huge improvement over the stock trigger pull. At the time, Shooting Sight's trigger did not exist.

I like both methods, but I really like being able to do the work myself.

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Old February 10th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #3
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I went back to tuned USGI myself.
I will keep the ShootingSight combo in my tool box just in case I get the urge to experiment again. Nice product, just not for my taste at the moment.

Semper Fi
ArtB

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Old February 10th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #4
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It is great to see ART marketing high quality trigger replacement parts ...
These should sell well up here in Canada, where we have thousands of inexpensive CHINESE M14 clones ...
MOST OF WHICH DESPERATELY NEED TRIGGER JOBS.

I have done hundreds of M14 trigger jobs by hand, using a fine SQUARE stone to true up hammer hooks to a perfect 90 degrees, and a very fine ceramic fish hook sharpener angled stone and VERY FINE emery paper to clean up the rest.

IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!

But I have also seen dozens of do-it-yourself attempted trigger jobs on M14 rifles, where BAD CHIT HAPPEN!!

Starting with decent quality parts, I can do a quick clean up, and get a CRISP 5 lbs fairly easily. In fact, I include this service as part of my usual basic inspections and tweak on every Chinese M14 that passes through my hands.

Going below 5 lbs,, I prefer to use GI parts for long term durability, instead of Chinese parts. Although, I have done some 4.5 or 4 3/4 lb jobs with Chinese parts that have maintained reliability for thousands of rounds and several years.

However,
too many of the Chinese M14 parts are NOT decent. I have seen UNSAFE trigger mechanisms on brand new out of the box Chinese M14s, and also seen hammer hooks and sear surfaces where the angles are way off of true. PLUS, the hardness of these parts may leave something to be desired. This applies especially to the trigger pins, which may be too soft, and wear or bend out of round, or too hard and brittle, so they break. And on rare occasions, I have seen trigger housings that were drilled at a slight angle ... which makes the hammer and sear do funny things.

So, all in all, having HIGH quality, DROP IN, trigger replacement parts for Canadian/Chinese M14 rifles makes a lot of sense.

The one issue that might show up consistently with the Chinese trigger groups using NEW full sized trigger pins, is that the Chinese trigger pin hole is METRIC, and very slightly undersized from US GI spec. This may mean some slight lapping or enlarging of the trigger pin hole before the NEW trigger pins will fit.

LAZ 1

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Old February 10th, 2017, 12:09 PM   #5
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Thank you for the excellent and informative review. Your comments are well written and thoughtful.

This product has been on my short list for a while and I intend to buy one. The heavier first stage is the most appealing feature to me.

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Old February 10th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #6
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If you didn't fire it, the assessment seems incomplete.

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Old February 10th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #7
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I offer several benefits that are not always apparent, especially if compared to a well done trigger job.

1. Setup can be done in about 10 minutes with one try, rather than stoning, building, testing, teardown, tweeking ...

2. There is no stoning, so there is no risk of going through any case hard layer.

3. The disconnector face has been redesigned, so it is virtually impossible to double, even if you milk the trigger.

4. There are lots of ways to reduce pull force, one I have often seen is to trim the hammer spring. However this also slows swing time. Mine adds a counter spring, so you can adjust pull force reliably.

5. As discussed, the hammer swing is faster. Discussion of the magnitude of this benefit is open, but I don't think there is any disagreement that a faster swing is a good thing.

6. Compared to commercial cast parts, these triggers are almost certainly more square and true. USGI were machined, though today's CNC is more accurate so I'd expect a slight benefit there.

Bottom line, a trigger job done well by someone competent will produce an excellent trigger. I think mine can be set up faster, and last longer, and there are small areas where I am better, but you have to know what to look for. There will not be a night/day difference between a well done trigger job and mine.

And I will re-iterate that I do stand behind it. If someone is not satisfied, I will refund.

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Old February 11th, 2017, 04:58 AM   #8
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Didn't even live fire, wow. Hey smoothy send it to me, I'll try it in this new M25 scout I'm having issues with.

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Old February 11th, 2017, 05:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post

I did not actually fire the new hammer/trigger. I tried several hours of dryfire in position comparing both and the modest improvement was not worth it to me.
I trained on the M14. Never dry fired that much. Do most people?

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Old February 11th, 2017, 05:34 AM   #10
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I disagree about 'live fire' being necessary to judge a trigger.
The actual pull weight / feel / consistency / etc. can be deteremined better through dry fire where full concentration can be on the trigger itself, and not aiming or recoil.

If the trigger behaves differently (or has problems) during live fire, then that's another issue.

Jay Kosta
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Old February 11th, 2017, 05:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich D View Post
I trained on the M14. Never dry fired that much. Do most people?
Only if they want to become proficient.
My ratio is about 10 to 1 dry to live and I run in excess of 2500 rnds with the M14 per year. That looks close to 25K of dry fire so the trigger/sear and hammer get a fairly good workout. I do run good quality snap caps to try to take a little burden off the firing pin.

Semper Fi
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Old February 11th, 2017, 05:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nf1e View Post
I do run good quality snap caps to try to take a little burden off the firing pin.

Semper Fi
Art
Which caps do you use?

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Old February 11th, 2017, 06:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich D View Post
Which caps do you use?
Tipton's are the ones I like the best. I like the spring loaded brass primers.

Used a bunch of different ones over the years. I hate the ones with the rubber primers, they seem to wear out in no time and are expensive to start with.



Semper Fi
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Old February 11th, 2017, 06:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich D View Post
Which caps do you use?
I use a "Dry-fire" device. The design holds the bolt back a half inch or so. To reset the the trigger you only need to cycle the op-rod handle a tiny bit. An added benefit is that the hammer never hits the firing pin, eliminating any potential firing pin wear or damage.

https://www.creedmoorsports.com/prod...nd-Accessories

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Old February 11th, 2017, 07:37 AM   #15
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For us heathens who've abandoned tradition and dropped their M14/M1A into a pistol-gripped stock/chassis, the EBR version made sense to me. Improves the pull angle and get a tuned trigger. When folks are dropping $50 for a trigger shoe that can fall off and does nothing to improve the trigger, the extra cost didn't seem so bad.

I've yet to test fire it yet; I am waiting for my build from Wolfe Firearms.

Thanks from Lazerus2000 and leonmckee
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