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grouping opens with flash suppressor attached

This is a discussion on grouping opens with flash suppressor attached within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; You may want to try a direct thread flash hider or break. Should weigh less and would definitely be shorter....


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Old January 30th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #16
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You may want to try a direct thread flash hider or break.
Should weigh less and would definitely be shorter.

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Old January 30th, 2017, 12:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by MO638 View Post

#3, yes but as stated in my original post, I do not have one handy at this time and will the larger opening really help me in this case since I have clear margins and no projectile strikes?

Thanks again,
Mike

I certainly agree with the change in barrel harmonics as being part of the equation and being potentially detrimental to your group size.

To address your question #3, a larger opening will allow more gas to escape around the projo as it exits the flash suppressor. This in turn means that less gas and "jetting" is passing through the slits in the suppressor to potentially change POI. Granted, it doesn't seem like much, but sometimes it doesn't take much of a change to make a difference.

You may find this thread informative, especially post #19:

The reamed Flash Suppressor

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Old February 2nd, 2017, 06:03 PM   #18
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If I'm not mistaken all SA M1A's come with national match flash suppressors

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Old February 2nd, 2017, 06:15 PM   #19
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Ok,
looked at the FS with a set of loops tonight to see if I could find a tiny trace of bullet rub or a crack. I found neither.
I took a measurement on the ID at the far most end from the muzzle and it measured .415-.416 which indicates to me it's a NM version I think. I can not measure the muzzle end since I do not have a way of getting down in there for the measurement.

I have got a loaner SEI Good Iron M14 US Coast Guard / Navy Muzzle Brake coming from a buddy of mine who had one not being used. He warned me that the ID is not near as big as the NM I have now.

More to come and thanks again for all the suggestions.

Oh, and I went ahead and set the barrel whip screw on the stock tonight, per SAGE spec. ( just touching with no pressure )

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Old February 2nd, 2017, 06:28 PM   #20
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New SAI guns come with a NM spec F/S like yours, just with no bayo lug. So that is not the issue. If it was shooting half MOA I can see why you would be unhappy with the FS on.

Thanks from MO638
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Old February 11th, 2017, 08:11 PM   #21
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Range Day update,
Started with factory NM FS installed and tightened to spec (mallet and tightened with gas block tool and castle ring tool.)
Group was 2 inches with 4 shots and low by 10 moa and left by 6 moa.
Removed factory NM FS and installed SEI Coast Guard FS and tightened to spec (mallet and tightened with gas block tool and castle ring tool.)

2 rounds were touching and 5 moa low and 4 moa left. Made Mil adjustments and shot bull. Repeated 6 rounds all in center ring and group was ~1/2 moa. moved to 500 yard range and shot 19 of 20 rounds on 12" steel.

Looks like I need to make a call to SA on Monday.

Thanks for all the suggestions on this issue.

BTW, will paper the 500 yr next week sometime to just see what the grouping is.

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Old February 11th, 2017, 08:46 PM   #22
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BARREL HARMONICS in a complicated semi auto SYSTEM like with the M14 type rifles, is more of an art than a science. This is especially true in a design that uses op rod barrel to chassis connection instead of the usual forend tip to ferrule. Believe me, I have shot off a LOT of ammo with the BLACKFEATHER alloy chassis, which in this Particular way, is similar to the SAGE.

In my experience, two seemingly identical rifles may produce different results, and although I have been trying for decades to understand why, I end up saying "VOODOO".

Your individual rifle is telling you that it shoots better without a flashider. And this is repeatable, with several different types if ammo.

Listen to your rifle.

Personally, I am rarely concerned about night shooting and have no intentions of ever being on a two way range, so I see no need for a flash hider ...
Even if it is TRADITIONAL on the M14.

So, balance off "tradition" VS accuracy, and decide what works for you.

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Old February 11th, 2017, 09:32 PM   #23
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Sounds to me like you should leave the FS at home. .5 inch groups at 100 yards are hard to come by, even with a bolt gun made to do that.

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Old February 11th, 2017, 09:49 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Wasted ammo View Post
Sounds to me like you should leave the FS at home. .5 inch groups at 100 yards are hard to come by, even with a bolt gun made to do that.
I resolved the issue today by changing the FS to another type / brand. I have proven to myself at least that the issue with grouping was a result of the factory NM FS.

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Old February 11th, 2017, 09:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerus2000 View Post
BARREL HARMONICS in a complicated semi auto SYSTEM like with the M14 type rifles, is more of an art than a science. This is especially true in a design that uses op rod barrel to chassis connection instead of the usual forend tip to ferrule. Believe me, I have shot off a LOT of ammo with the BLACKFEATHER alloy chassis, which in this Particular way, is similar to the SAGE.

In my experience, two seemingly identical rifles may produce different results, and although I have been trying for decades to understand why, I end up saying "VOODOO".

Your individual rifle is telling you that it shoots better without a flashider. And this is repeatable, with several different types if ammo.

Listen to your rifle.

Personally, I am rarely concerned about night shooting and have no intentions of ever being on a two way range, so I see no need for a flash hider ...
Even if it is TRADITIONAL on the M14.

So, balance off "tradition" VS accuracy, and decide what works for you.
I resolved the issue today by changing the factory FS to another type / brand. The SEI is more of a brake than a FS and worked nicely in keeping my muzzle down.
My plan is to keep using the SEI device for the time being but I want to see what SA says about the NM FS and see if they will replace it.

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