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Optimum Setup Mechanics

This is a discussion on Optimum Setup Mechanics within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; What do you think is the optimum accuracy set up, there is no right or wrong give the details WHY and REASON's what you think ...


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Old January 21st, 2017, 12:54 PM   #1
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Thumbs up Optimum Setup Mechanics

What do you think is the optimum accuracy set up, there is no right or wrong give the details WHY and REASON's what you think is best. There is more than one way too skin this cat so too speak. How would you set up your ultimate Service Rifle rifle, can be either M1 or M1A, Across the Course or Long Range.

So lets get those creative juices flowing, devil is in the details. And lets not turn this into a USGI parts squabble...

Thanks from nf1e, Rich D and Allen Humphrey
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Old January 21st, 2017, 03:49 PM   #2
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I've got a Scout, so accuracy is not my primary motivation. If I could afford to build one, probably be the same length, chrome heavier(medium) barrel, BULA XM-21 style. Quality parts would be used, but functionality would be primary. Accuracy is relative. I like my Zeiss 3X9 a lot, so would keep it or upgrade to higher quality Zeiss or the like, same magnification or a little higher. Only stocks I've tried are USGI(long time ago) and the Scout plastic. I have a wooden stock coming, and might opt for that. I don't think I'd do anything radical stock-wise. Bedding, perhaps. How's that for a novice just forming opinions? Now if I can just find about 5 G's.

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Old January 21st, 2017, 04:04 PM   #3
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1) Get a good sight picture
2) Pull the trigger without moving
3) Concentrate on seeing where the front sight is really pointed when the shot fires
4) Don't relax until recoil has ended

All the rest is 'mechanical trivia' that is fixed by stuffing $$ into the rifle!

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Old January 21st, 2017, 06:20 PM   #4
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Comfortable and confidence.

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Old January 21st, 2017, 06:51 PM   #5
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Jay Kosta said it right here!

But I just might add that when I set up optimally and my 'mechanics' are right I more than likely hit the target I am aiming at...

Provided the round goes off!...lol

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Old January 21st, 2017, 07:29 PM   #6
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Mac Stock, As many USGI parts as I can Fine/afford. Krieger medium weight barrel (i can not exploit the accuracy difference that a Heavy weight barrel offers). Starting at the front end, I would ream out the Flashinder. Since I live in CALI. I use muzzle brakes. And they work real well. I would have the gas system unitized and shimmed to time the gas lock. The hand guard would be sanded so there is no contact with the stock or the barrel, except where the clips meet the barrel. The Hand Guard would be red silicone at the front band. The Op-rod Guide would be timed to line up the Op-Rod, center, with the Gas Piston. The Receiver would be from Either Springfield or Fulton unless I came across some more Old School Smith Ent. Receivers. The rear sights would be National Match, though I would have it scoped. The trigger would be worked to a crisp 4.5# pull. The whole action would be bedded to the Mac stock with Steel or titanium Devcon putty. There would be rails up front left and right and a By-pod stud.

Thanks from XM25Ren
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Old January 21st, 2017, 08:39 PM   #7
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Interesting question. Since this is all academic, i'll go all in and money is no object. M1A. XTC Rifle

1. Receiver would be a forged rear lug unit. The final rifle would be double lugged but the front lug would attach to the barrel because I don't like the idea of welding near the barrel threads.

2. Barrel would be heavy contour with gain twist starting at 1:14 and ending at 1:10 for the last 4 inches. I think you could push heavier bullests with lower pressure spikes and be easier on thin jacket projectiles.

3. Here is an odd one. Titanium flash suppressor reamed to NM specs. This should reduce the weight snapping around on the end of the barrel.

4. High speed hammer and and adjustable trigger.

5. Composite stock

6. Oversized bolt. I think reducing the clearances behind the lugs and at the back of the bolt would improve accuracy.

7. Cerakote finish because XTC shooters are not afraid of the rain.

8. EDIT. Almost forgot the adjustable gas plug to go with the idea of more loads to choose from.

Also, to Jay's point above...practice makes perfect. I agree wholeheartedly. However, my limited experience with M1A/M14 indicates that the rifle measureably benefits from proper mechanical setup and I like the idea of eliminating the excuses to where I know the performace is just in my hands.

Thanks from Phil McGrath, Doc and JEFFJP_N_JJ

Last edited by Allen Humphrey; January 22nd, 2017 at 10:19 AM.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #8
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Question

Humm...... I was hoping, but maybe I wasn't clear.... You're the crew chief with a unlimited budget too build your rifle, what or how would you go about setting up the rifle too unsure it was the ultimate in accuracy.

There is more than one way too skin the cat, what is it you feel are the best methods or combo of the best methods for making the ultimate rifle.

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Old January 27th, 2017, 02:13 PM   #9
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Well Phil, I am doing just that in my thread building an XM25! She should be a tact driver when Jon Wolfe and JD Russell get done. They were provided with the best of the best parts out there.

Look it up,The Building of an XM25 and it's Parts.

McMillan Stock
Glass Bedded
BPTco. stock liner
Unitized gas cylinder/BPTco. modification
NM Trigger
NM flash hider
Barnett NM medium wt. barrel/reamed for LR118
BPTco. Piston
BPTco. NM spring guide
NM front and rear sights
BPTco. scope mount
B&L Tactical 10x40
GunWorks Forged receiver



This M14 screams accuracy.

REN

Budget, what budget!


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Old January 27th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
Humm...... I was hoping, but maybe I wasn't clear.... You're the crew chief with a unlimited budget too build your rifle, what or how would you go about setting up the rifle too unsure it was the ultimate in accuracy.

There is more than one way too skin the cat, what is it you feel are the best methods or combo of the best methods for making the ultimate rifle.
Bula Defense Systems XM21 with NM med weight barrel in 1 - 10, unitized gas system, match op rod guide, tuned trigger group , GGW muzzle brake, JAE Gen III chassis , Atlas bipod and Acu-shot monopod topped off with a Leupold MK4 LRT 8.5 - 25. She may not be pretty, but she knows how to kick adz. Skip coffee for a couple of days and get her done. Not recommended for across the course for anyone but the HULK.



Semper Fi
ArtB


Last edited by nf1e; January 27th, 2017 at 03:41 PM.
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Old January 27th, 2017, 10:19 PM   #11
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Talking

Well, I guess I will add my .02 so here goes..... I'm not receiver fussy as long as its not a 7.62/TRW, Fed Ord. or from China. So I will start from the front and work my way back.

1. NM reamed F/H with lug
2. NM .062 front sight trimmed down too give 6 clicks up from the bottom @ 200yds with my pet hand load for ATC. for LR use a .072 front sight trimmed down too match my 600yds ATC setting. This keeps from racking out the rear sight at 1000yds.
3. Gas cylinder assembly. NM unitized, I prefer the USMC welded method with the added M25 vent mod. Gas Piston its a toss up either the Sadlak grooved TiN or the Bula Nitrated with added groove. I've played with the off side of the spindle valve and like how its working but I've also toyed with what I will name the John Wolfe piston blow hole mod. It works real good as well. Gas cylinder slid forward and shimmed too just uncover the G/P for some added dwell time and a trimmed piston tail too finish it off and make the dwell time perfect. Gas cylinder lock timed as well.
4. Trim and float handguard.
5. Barrel, I'm a fan of 5R rifling so Obermeyer or one of JWolfe's 5R X-ring killers, ROT 1/11 chamber reamer same deal.
6. For some odd reason I would like too reduce the inside clearance of the op-rod guide too half its nominal clearance. Its a target rifle so it doesn't need too rattle side too side as much as a regular guide allows. Weather it shows any benefit I would like too find out.
6a. NM spring guide with CS spring along for the ride.
7. USGI bolt lapped in with the trigger group and mag installed too support the bolts tail, I would like too see 80% or better contact on both sides before the chamber is reamed. And while I'm playing with the bolt snip off 2 coils off the ejector spring so the cases don't get pitched into the next county.
8. NM/2a rear sight assembly with .595 hood aperture, add ball and detent mod too the windage knob, this gives a finer .25moa adjustment. If needed also add McCoy mod too sight base if windage doesn't quite track right.
9. Give Shooting Sights Adj trigger and slim fast hammer a try.
10. Lugs, the more the better. Sandwiched in and bolted down into a bedded Mac syn stock.

I think that about covers it, barring anyone giving me the winning lotto numbers? I do except donations.........

Thanks from nf1e, Doc, unkola and 2 others

Last edited by Phil McGrath; January 27th, 2017 at 10:46 PM.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #12
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Phil- Like the setup. Being new to the platform i'm not familiar with some of the mods you discuss in #3 related to dwell. I'll have to search the forum for information describing those.

Also, the McCoy mod for the sight isn't familiar to me. I have heard of McCoy related to Garands, but not the sight modification specifically.

Interesting thought on the op rod guide. Obviously at some point the tighter clearances can lead to binding, but I'm sure there is room to tighten things up in a match rifle as you mention.

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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Humphrey View Post
Phil- Like the setup. Being new to the platform i'm not familiar with some of the mods you discuss in #3 related to dwell. I'll have to search the forum for information describing those.

Also, the McCoy mod for the sight isn't familiar to me. I have heard of McCoy related to Garands, but not the sight modification specifically.

Interesting thought on the op rod guide. Obviously at some point the tighter clearances can lead to binding, but I'm sure there is room to tighten things up in a match rifle as you mention.
Art Lupino, has had some very good posts explaining Dwell. I was sworn too secrecy on the Garand Master McCoy's rear sight mod, its super sneaky and so simple its invisible. The M14/M1A uses the same rear sight system, so the mod would serve the same function.

Thanks from Allen Humphrey
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Old January 30th, 2017, 01:39 AM   #14
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Building of a super match grade M1A/M14 is similar to auto racing in that it's all about "cubic money" as in engine displacement. Results all depend on that most variable of all things, the "driver" or shooter if you will.

Thanks from nf1e and AMS 41
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Old January 30th, 2017, 06:13 AM   #15
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Whatever Art L. is shooting.

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