single load or out of the mag? - Page 2 - M14 Forum

M14 Forum


single load or out of the mag?

This is a discussion on single load or out of the mag? within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; A couple reason to single load when testing or shooting groups. By single loading I mean (as has been stated above) to slip a single ...


Go Back   M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Accuracy

30Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Moderator Tools Display Modes

Old January 4th, 2017, 06:49 AM   #16
Doc
Lifer
 
Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MS
Posts: 3,387
A couple reason to single load when testing or shooting groups.
By single loading I mean (as has been stated above) to slip a single round down into the mag and then pull the op rod enough to release it and let it slam home --- doing that lets everything slam to battery (hopefully the same way each time). Letting the bolt ease forward is not the way to do it.
Doing this - lets you practice for slow fire where the rule is to load and fire 1 round at a time (if you are a match shooter). If you are not a match shooter and shooting to test loads (groups) it slows the cadence a little and can help you develop a rhythm and make notes between shoots et cetera.
As far as the question: Is a 10 (or 5) shot group smaller if fired by loading 1 round at a time, or simply loading the mag and shooting the entire group from the mag. While I have not conducted this exact test, with a sufficiently long enough string of groups to be statistically valid, I believe there would be no statistical difference between the two methods where everything was equal except the method of loading....... just IMO.

Thanks from JEFFJP_N_JJ

Last edited by Doc; January 4th, 2017 at 08:08 AM.
Doc is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 4th, 2017, 07:33 AM   #17
Old Salt
 
swagbrdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 1,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
A couple reason to single load when testing or shooting groups.
By single loading I mean (as has been stated above) to slip a single round down into the mad and then pull the op rod enough to release it and let it slam home --- doing that lets everything slam to battery (hopefully the same way each time). Letting the bolt ease forward is not the way to do it.
Doing this - lets you practice for slow fire where the rule is to load and fire 1 round at a time (if you are a match shooter). If you are not a match shooter and shooting to test loads (groups) it slows the cadence a little and can help you develop a rhythm and makes notes between shoots et cetera.
As far as the question: Is a 10 (or 5) shot group smaller if fired by loading 1 round at a time, or simply loading the mag and shooting the entire group from the mag. While I have not conducted this exact test, with a sufficiently long enough string of groups to be statistically valid, I believe there would be no statistical difference between the two methods where everything was equal except the method of loading....... just IMO.
Agreed. I just don't see the difference as the operation is the same if every round has been stripped from the magazine. So, by the rational being discussed here, logic suggests your first round should always pull somewhere different than the other 19 rounds. None of my auto loading firearms do this...whether it's a M1, AR-15, M1A or my 1911s. I either have strong grouping from the get go or I don't. When I don't, it's not a great load and I keeping testing.

If someone can show me some empirical evidence to prove me wrong, please do so. I've never seen an article that mentions this theory nor have I heard about it before this thread.

The bottom line is the M1A is a magazine fed battle rifle. I test my loads in the rifle as it would be used in the field.

Thanks from Doc and JEFFJP_N_JJ
swagbrdr is offline  
Old January 4th, 2017, 08:37 AM   #18
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,405
Single loading for Slow Fire/Prone I push the base of the round into the magazine enough to hold it in, release bolt and fire. A "trick" used at times is to take a magazine that has given you problems, fill it with lead enough that only one round will snap in, works fine and that extra weight does steady the rifle in prone/sling position as well as off hand. Is that legal, don't know for sure but discovered it one day when helping fellow shooter gather up his gear and picked up one of his magazines and could not believe how heavy it was.
He smiled and explained what he had done. Offered to do one for me, but did not do it.

Thanks from nf1e
Instructor is online now  
 
Old January 4th, 2017, 12:03 PM   #19
Designated Marksman
 
Pvt. Joker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 600
Talking Somethin to ponder................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by nf1e View Post
Not if you live in la la lan like me. Humor
I edited my post to keep all the proof readers happy.
Is that like the old Men at Work tune
" I come from a "LAN" downunder ?





JOKER

Thanks from nf1e
Pvt. Joker is offline  
Old January 4th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #20
Old Salt
 
4Quangs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Agreed. I just don't see the difference as the operation is the same if every round has been stripped from the magazine. So, by the rational being discussed here, logic suggests your first round should always pull somewhere different than the other 19 rounds. None of my auto loading firearms do this...whether it's a M1, AR-15, M1A or my 1911s. I either have strong grouping from the get go or I don't. When I don't, it's not a great load and I keeping testing.

If someone can show me some empirical evidence to prove me wrong, please do so. I've never seen an article that mentions this theory nor have I heard about it before this thread.

The bottom line is the M1A is a magazine fed battle rifle. I test my loads in the rifle as it would be used in the field.
Many hand loaders do not crimp their rounds; in fact many leave the necks on the case expanded so the neck tension on the bullet is very low. The rifle's recoil is strong enough to cause the bullet to shift its location in the case resulting in differing OAL of the cartridge. The more shots fired, the larger the difference can be.

Additionally, the strength of the recoil will vary according to the powder charge of the just fired cartridge. This will will add/reduce the recoil's impact on the rounds remaining in the magazine.

Your overall point is sound; when shooting crimp military ammo, the accuracy of the rifle will vary somewhat, but it has no chance of being as consistent or as accurate as when shooting hand loads.

Thanks from nf1e
4Quangs is offline  
Old January 4th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #21
Squad Leader
 
Samuel Seeley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvt. Joker View Post
" I come from a "LAN" downunder ?
"Where beer does flow and men chunder!"

Samuel Seeley is offline  
Old January 4th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #22
Grunt
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Out West
Posts: 110
Thumbs up

I singe load for accuracy with a modified clip for my Garand. Never thought of it in my M-14, duh. Thanks for giving me something new to try.

Thanks from nf1e
JeepFan is offline  
Old January 4th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #23
Dodgin' The Reaper
 
nf1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New Preston,CT
Posts: 7,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepFan View Post
I singe load for accuracy with a modified clip for my Garand. Never thought of it in my M-14, duh. Thanks for giving me something new to try.
I think you will see a significant improvement.

nf1e is online now  
Old January 4th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #24
Old Salt
 
swagbrdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 1,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Quangs View Post
Many hand loaders do not crimp their rounds; in fact many leave the necks on the case expanded so the neck tension on the bullet is very low. The rifle's recoil is strong enough to cause the bullet to shift its location in the case resulting in differing OAL of the cartridge. The more shots fired, the larger the difference can be.

Additionally, the strength of the recoil will vary according to the powder charge of the just fired cartridge. This will will add/reduce the recoil's impact on the rounds remaining in the magazine.

Your overall point is sound; when shooting crimp military ammo, the accuracy of the rifle will vary somewhat, but it has no chance of being as consistent or as accurate as when shooting hand loads.
Yeah, all those I listed run handloads only. I run a Lee factory crimp on all my loads so I don't have to second guess my loads moving around...ever. Hence consistency.

I agree, if you're running your neck tension very loose, your premise is sound. Bullets can slide all over. But...why would you run multiple rounds in a magazine with a loose neck tension? I get it if you're going to shoot single shots exclusively, but the OP indicated this wasn't his problem/question.

swagbrdr is offline  
Reply

  M14 Forum > M14 M1A Forum > Accuracy


Search tags for this page

m14 single round loading match shooting

,

single loafing m1a

,

single round feeding an m14

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Moderator Tools
Display Modes


Similar M14 Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eagle Single Mag Pouch Belt Loop & IWP Ambidextrous for Glock 9mm/40 ...-$4.21 Gundealhound Gun Deal Hound 0 January 22nd, 2016 11:49 AM
CMI mag feeding issues. BSalty Ammunition 12 July 1st, 2012 06:29 PM
M14 Load Bearing Vest w/ mag pouches. Charlene32 SPF 5 January 14th, 2012 03:28 PM
M14 single mag pouch USGI or commercial copy? 3/17 Ammunition 6 May 15th, 2010 07:07 AM
Wilderness single mag pouch kimura Ammunition 3 January 2nd, 2010 12:07 PM



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List