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Accuracy Progression

This is a discussion on Accuracy Progression within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; Originally Posted by Pr589 How did you arrive at your 168 grain/4895 load? Did you do any load development? I ask because for me, this ...


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Old December 24th, 2016, 01:42 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pr589 View Post
How did you arrive at your 168 grain/4895 load? Did you do any load development?

I ask because for me, this was the most significant way to tighten my groups although you are doing well from the most recent results.
Pretty strighforward process really. I had some Hornady 168 HPBT. I had some IMR4895. 40.0 sounded like a nice round number that seemed mild. Didn't figure there was any need to waste powder and beat myself up with anything hotter to test the mechanical aspects of the rifle.

At the end I'll probably try a few of the common and documented match ammo combinations, but I don't personally desire to spend a bunch of time at the bench. The rifle is already exceeding my initial expectations.

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Old December 25th, 2016, 09:06 AM   #32
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JEFFJP_N_JJ said:
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Is your 16 power better or should I go to a 20 power one?
Do you mind an interloper? I have a 24X scope (half inch dot) on my Rem700: the sight picture is so much better than my Leupold 12X. Actually, it is awesome, but I shoot only at black circles. Unfortunately, it is not constructed for springer airguns

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Old December 25th, 2016, 02:35 PM   #33
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JEFFJP_N_JJ said:

Do you mind an interloper? I have a 24X scope (half inch dot) on my Rem700: the sight picture is so much better than my Leupold 12X. Actually, it is awesome, but I shoot only at black circles. Unfortunately, it is not constructed for springer airguns

Thanks! I think I need to start saving up... I only shoot the 10/20 Dot targets here for fun but feel my 10X fixed is not well suited for that even though it does fine on Metal gongs.

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Old January 14th, 2017, 03:16 PM   #34
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Probably my last post on this thread. The last modification on my list was to ream the flash hider. I noted a change in POI. Due to range conditions I shot this test from 200yds. results were slightly worse than before the modifications, but probably within the expected variation.

I also shot another load after the test that was the best yet. Hornady 168 hpbt over 41.5 gr of IMR4895. See Picture for that one.. also at 200yds. Low shot was first from magazine.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3v...ew?usp=sharing

[IMG][/IMG]

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Old January 14th, 2017, 03:39 PM   #35
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Great thread, really useful information, especially if other replicates exist for comparison.

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Old January 14th, 2017, 07:14 PM   #36
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Thanks Allen you have given use reloaders much to think about.
Jeff

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Old January 16th, 2017, 09:40 AM   #37
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summary??

Allen Humphrey said:
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Probably my last post on this thread.
Before you go, could you summarize the rifle modifications and ammo development that contributed to your group reduction? Also, could you describe your bench setup and shooting technique? You seem to be a very competent shooter.


Thanks.

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Old January 17th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Allen Humphrey said:

Before you go, could you summarize the rifle modifications and ammo development that contributed to your group reduction? Also, could you describe your bench setup and shooting technique? You seem to be a very competent shooter.


Thanks.
I really do not plan to go anywhere, but I figure the testing has about run its course. Testing was from the bench with the rifle bagged. All of the rifle modifications are documented on the link to the PDF, but in general, the modifications fell into 3 categories. The test progression was laid out to modify one thing at a time, such that any performance change could be attributed to that change. Keep in mind that the rifle came to my ownership bedded, rear lugged, medium barrel, and a clearance ferrule. The categories were:
1. NM mods consisting of (the above mentioned andÖ)reamed FS, NM op rod spring guide, trigger job, and unitized GC. Rifle will be converted back to NM iron sights after testing.

2. Loads: started with ball ammo for a baseline and then went to improved and consistent components.

3. Other: LRB nitride piston. Shimming for a bit more barrel draw.

Since my goal is to have an Across the Course rifle, it made sense to me to shoot in strings of 5 from the magazine, with ten shots per group measurement (two mags of 5 in other words)

There are a few comments that are important to the test results in my opinion. The M1A/M14 platform is new to me so I feel that I was objective without too many preconceived notions of what would or would not work. However, Iím human and as I approached each change, I would develop an opinion about how it might work (or not). For example, the spring guide strikes me as voodoo and my Scottish blood would not permit me to purchase the $50 guide. I settled for the brand X $30 part that was still overpriced. Maybe the extra Jackson would have made the rifle better?? A blind test would really bet the ultimate. Also, I am not an experienced scope shooter. I suspect that my early results were hampered somewhat by my learning curve. I was more comfortable with the scope by the end of the test. Finally Iíll add that many of the modifications may have less to do with improving accuracy, and much more to do with durability and consistency. For example, a un-bedded rifle may shoot just as well as a bedded one at first, but the bedded rifle will probably maintain that accuracy longer. Hope this helps.

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Old January 18th, 2017, 04:04 PM   #39
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That was a great 200 yd group. I found your post very interesting in regards to what makes it shoot better as you went along.

Someone touched on this briefly earlier so I'd like to throw my 2 cents (not really worth that much) in and expand on it a bit.

It's really simple but either everyone just takes it for granted of doesn't even think about it. STABILITY. Anyone who has shot ATC knows that at 600 yds with iron sights, you are practically glued to the gun. (Do they still use that black spray stuff?). Anyway, you and the rifle are as close to unmoving as you can get it.

Same goes with off the bench. I would bet you already have a 1 MOA or less rifle if you just do a couple of things.

First, targets. Art has a great idea with the triangles but I haven't tried it YET. I use the orange diamond targets like in my pics. Make sure target is mounted level. When I'm behind the rifle, I check to make sure the top turret is level (yeah, I know I can buy a bubble level). You would be surprised at how much it moves the point of aim just twisting it a hair to get it level. Also use the top and side diamond points to lay your crosshairs on.

Next is Rifle rest. Basically better is better. Last year I forgot my rest and used the ranges plastic rest. Shot about 1 1/2" groups. Since I started using my Sinclair rest from my .50 cal days, I haven't been over 1 MOA and most are <.75". Like you, my goal is a .50

The front bag on the rest is sand filled and adjustable for forend width. I have it nice and snug and rest the rifle just behind the front swivel. Rear bag is a sand filled Eagle I think. As seen in the attached picture, I can line up the rifle by sliding the rear bag and turning the elevation wheel on the rest. Using these adjustments, I can get the crosshairs lined up exactly on my aiming point to where I can let go of the rifle and it stays on POA. To address another point, I have a 6-18 scope and I don't believe you can get precise enough unless you have that kind of magnification.

I get behind the rifle and barely touch it. Seriously, using your hand to hold it just a tad right or left will open up your group. Use the rest for adjustment. It it moves when you grab the pistol grip, readjust it. I fold my left arm on the bench. I don't put my cheek on the stock and I don't pull it into my shoulder. Hell, it must weigh 10-12 lbs so it doesn't kick. If you have a decent trigger and good trigger control, you can just slowly pull it till it shoots. Also, PATIENCE. If you are sighting and trying to break a shot and holding your breath, if you don't shoot in about 10 secs, STOP, blink several times, look around and start over.

By the way, I don't reload anymore (will be 70 in Oct) so all these were shot with Fed GGM 168's. Back in the day, 41.5 IMR4895 LC Match brass and 168 Sierra BTHP's was my load.

Get a good rest and learn how to use it (bench rest guys are great teachers), maybe more scope and I think you will be there.

Keep it up.
T
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