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SA Loaded, accuracy is driving me crazy... where to go from here...

This is a discussion on SA Loaded, accuracy is driving me crazy... where to go from here... within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; M1A stock does not let you maintain good cheek weld with a scope. Get a pad to correct cheek weld...


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Old November 26th, 2016, 04:12 PM   #16
wxl
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M1A stock does not let you maintain good cheek weld with a scope. Get a pad to correct cheek weld

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Old November 26th, 2016, 04:15 PM   #17
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Sling...on the bench? New one on me. I try to make sure there is never a sling on any rifle when on the bench, just gets in the way.

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Old November 26th, 2016, 05:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog Leader View Post
...
"Assemble the rifle, squeeze.the stock and barrel towards one another. The condition desired is movement up and down. "

I cant get my rifle to do the above, cant even squeeze it enough to get a patch in the front band or lube it.
...
----------
Is there direct contact between the top of the stock and the handguard that prohibits movement? There should be a visible gap on both sides, running the full length of the handguard.

When the trigger guard is unlatched, how much gap is there between the top of the stock and the heel of the receiver?
Ideally, the heel should be slightly above the stock and then pulled down into contact as the trigger guard is closed.

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Endwell NY USA

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Old November 26th, 2016, 06:06 PM   #19
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I don,t see a cheek riser in your photo. If you are not using one, you will not get any kind of accuracy with an optic.

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Old November 26th, 2016, 06:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog Leader View Post
Ok, watching the videos of tony, in the postion the rifle was in cradle, I thought it should rotate to ~5: 30, snug more to 6:00 position, then install plug?
Shimming might keep your front band from rattling, but it is not a substitute for unitizing. If you tighten it to the point where it actually keeps the front band from moving, you will be creating torque on the barrel.

With a properly unitized gas cylinder, the holes in the band are bored oversize so that they cannot come in contact with the barrel or the cylinder stem. The front band is pulled forward against the gas lock, away from the barrel shoulder. The goal is to isolate everything. Shimming does the opposite. It sandwiches everything between the barrel shoulder and the gas lock, and you can probably still wiggle the front band with your hand.

When your rifle cycles, the oprod hammers the piston against the gas plug, which pulls the gas cylinder forward against the lock.

This explains the preparation of the gas cylinder:

http://docslide.us/documents/us-m14-...ng-manual.html

The bottom of this diagram tells how to install a gas cylinder:


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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxl View Post
M1A stock does not let you maintain good cheek weld with a scope. Get a pad to correct cheek weld
Yes, I have one, and use it with rifle


Last edited by Red Dog Leader; November 27th, 2016 at 07:14 AM.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKosta View Post
----------
Is there direct contact between the top of the stock and the handguard that prohibits movement? There should be a visible gap on both sides, running the full length of the handguard.

When the trigger guard is unlatched, how much gap is there between the top of the stock and the heel of the receiver?
Ideally, the heel should be slightly above the stock and then pulled down into contact as the trigger guard is closed.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
Yes...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg my handgaurdweb.jpg (25.0 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg my reciever rearweb.jpg (26.3 KB, 25 views)

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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:29 AM   #23
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Thanks all for the help

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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:33 AM   #24
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Eliminate potential scope , mount, rings, riser height.
Shoot irons at a close distance of 25 or 50 yards , on sandbags, with 168 FGMM.

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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:49 AM   #25
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You post a picture of a few years ago where the rifle was shooting good, then one now where it doesn't. You say you like to load 150 grain bullets for the kids to plunk with. So I have to ask how many rounds down the barrel--could it be the barrel is starting to wear out?

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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:59 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog Leader View Post
Yes...
If you are match conditioning the rifle, the gap between the handguard sides and the stock should be enough to slide a credit card along the entire length. There should be a similar gap in the rear between the handguard and the receiver. Use a piece of neoprene or a dab of silicone to keep the handguard off the barrel. Put it where the clip attaches. Do all of these and the handguard will be free-floated as much as possible.

The gap between the stock ferrule and the front band should allow a business card to slip in and no more. Yours looks like the metal may be touching. The handguard ears on the front band should be turned upwards, so they don't contact the stock ferrule during barrel whip. This will be done on a unitized gas cylinder assembly.

Keep in mind that doing 1 or 2 of the match conditioning process really doesn't make a noticeable improvement. It is a combination of everything that brings a 3 moa rifle down to 1.5 moa. The bedding is probably the most important.

As for using a sling off the bench, the fact that you are sitting on your butt and laying a rifle on a sandbag does not mean you get to ignore the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship. When using a service grade rifle, slinging up tight creates temporary draw pressure on the barrel. If you have a 13 lb Supermatch with a heavy barrel and properly bedded heavy stock, you don't need to sling up. The rifle is doing it for you. You just need to hold the forend steady on the rest.

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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #27
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"Eliminate potential scope , mount, rings, riser height.
Shoot irons at a close distance of 25 or 50 yards , on sandbags, with 168 FGMM."


This is 1st on my list

"If you are match conditioning the rifle, the gap between the handguard sides and the stock should be enough to slide a credit card along the entire length. There should be a similar gap in the rear between the handguard and the receiver. Use a piece of neoprene or a dab of silicone to keep the handguard off the barrel. Put it where the clip attaches. Do all of these and the handguard will be free-floated as much as possible."

Just ran a CC card between HG and stock, had to use force and when pulled out HG dropped down with audible click noise.
Will work on it...

As for round count log book says just under 2K

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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog Leader View Post
"Eliminate potential scope , mount, rings, riser height.
Shoot irons at a close distance of 25 or 50 yards , on sandbags, with 168 FGMM."


This is 1st on my list

"If you are match conditioning the rifle, the gap between the handguard sides and the stock should be enough to slide a credit card along the entire length. There should be a similar gap in the rear between the handguard and the receiver. Use a piece of neoprene or a dab of silicone to keep the handguard off the barrel. Put it where the clip attaches. Do all of these and the handguard will be free-floated as much as possible."

Just ran a CC card between HG and stock, had to use force and when pulled out HG dropped down with audible click noise.
Will work on it...

As for round count log book says just under 2K
Yeah, sounds like the handguard is too tight and should be relieved but then I have to ask myself why it shot well previously with that same handguard on it unless you have made some changes along the way.

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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog Leader View Post
As for round count log book says just under 2K
2k of Match grade ammo isn't much. Most use clean burning extruded powders. 2k of surplus ammo, which often uses ball powder, could cause some throat erosion. Especially if there is rapid fire involved.

A TE gauge is a small investment for anyone who does a lot of shooting or collects military style rifles.

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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capona View Post
Yeah, sounds like the handguard is too tight and should be relieved but then I have to ask myself why it shot well previously with that same handguard on it unless you have made some changes along the way.
The factory wood stocks are the most accurate out-of-the-box choice, but as time goes by the fibers compress and everything loosens up enough to make a difference. At that point it is time to either bed the stock or get a new one. Prices are similar either way. I suspect he is at that point.

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