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M1A loaded accuracy with iron sights

This is a discussion on M1A loaded accuracy with iron sights within the Accuracy forums, part of the M14 M1A Forum category; I started testing my new loaded fiberglas SAI rifle last month. 1000 rds used up Russan,Port,german surplus,cavim,Rem express core-lokt 150 gr. The rifle has no ...


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Old May 27th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #1
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M1A loaded accuracy with iron sights

I started testing my new loaded fiberglas SAI rifle last month. 1000 rds used up Russan,Port,german surplus,cavim,Rem express core-lokt 150 gr. The rifle has no problems cycling with SAI mags. Only one fail to extract with the hand cleaned Port ammo from SG. I keep bore and gas system clean every 200 rds..
This is my problem. 4 MOA 5 shot groups are the best I can fire. at 25 yds nothing under 1", at 50 yds no groups under 2.5", at 100 yds 4.5 to 5.5" is all i can shoot. The loaded sights are excellent and can out shoot my M1 and my 18" Santa fe M-59 at 100 yds but not at 25 yds. I belive I should try a M-14 wood stock, or should I?
Or should I try acraglas at the ferule or other area? Thank you for any help.

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Old May 27th, 2012, 12:40 AM   #2
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You're going to have to provide more information for us if we're to properly help you out.

For instance... are you shooting your M1A from a bench rig?

If not, are you supporting your M1A front end and stock end via some other means (like sandbags/bag rests/bipod/pedestal arm/et cetera)?

Are your range weather conditions presteen when and where you shoot? Or are there winds/inclimate weather?

You should be determining your rifle's MOA using only Match Grade ammo. That's the most consistent (i.e. standardized) ammo to use for shot group analysis.

My Fulton Armory Enhanced M14 consistently shoots slightly better than 1.5 MOA at 150 yards using irons and just bean bag rests. This rifle shoots about a 1.0 MOA (at 150 yards) when I use my Atlas bipod in conjunction with a bean bag rest under my stock/back end. This is with Lake City ammunition.

With my scope, a bipod, the bean bag rest, match grade ammunition and no wind... I am able to achieve slightly better than 1.0 MOA at 200 yards. This is a rarity though because where I live is well known for its blustery wind conditions near year around.

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Old May 27th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #3
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Is the stock fiberglass or plastic?

Ole Silver

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Old May 27th, 2012, 01:15 PM   #4
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Pick up some good American Eagle 168 match ammo and shoot off a bench. Use a 6 o'clock hold on a black circle and raise your rear sights 3 clicks. Then let us know how it does.

Tony.

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Old May 27th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #5
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+1 on what tonyben said.

I bought a SAI loaded earlier this year. Using iron sights and Lake City 11 ammo I was only able to get the kind of results you mention (4-5 MOA). I tried some off the shelf commercial ammo and the results were much better. I began hand loading my ammo and I'm very impressed with the accuracy of the rifle. The weak link now is my eyes. Getting old is the pits!

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Old May 27th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #6
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First have to determine if it is you or the rifle. I get 2-3 MOA out of most NATO surplus. The best being German MEN or DAG and Radway Green. Best I can shoot with irons if 1-2 MOA anyways.

Maybe some practice is in order. Get some FGMM and see if that makes a difference. AT least then you'll eliminate one variable. My loaded model M1A shot lights out. It has been built up to NM specs.

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Old May 28th, 2012, 05:08 AM   #7
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My suggestion would be to get some more rounds downrange and watch the follow through. I think if you are having shooting issues the follow through should show it up. Once you are confident that you are shooting the gun well, then I would spring for some real Federal Gold Medal match ammo and try again.

If you are shooting off the bench, I find that how I set my bags up and how consistently I index the rifle after each shot is critical to best accuracy. If you are shooting position, it seems to all hinge on proper use of the sling and getting a good position "built".

I sold both of my loadeds, but with open sights I was good for about 2 to 3" at 100 yrds with 50 shots. I know the problem was my eyes more than the gun. I only have a scope on my SuperMatch and it is good for about an inch at 100 yrds off the bench for 50 shots.

Here is my bench setup.


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Old May 28th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #8
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I had a similar issue with my M1A Scout. I used 168gr FGMM to get my initial MOA consistency, as suggested by the good men on this forum. It was over 2.5MOA at best.

Once I determined I wanted to do better than 2.5MOA, I used the search and the advice I received was look at the basics on the rifle as it is.

Click on TonyBen's how to link in his signature. Look at all that stuff before you buy ANY parts. Your loaded has a superb BBL and a quick look at your op rod/action/bbl contact or removing any undue BBL to stock contact may give you 1MOA improvement with 1hr of work.

I went under 2MOA with just these improvements. With a little more work and without buying any expensive parts, I just printed a 1.5MOA with 168 FGMM. My BBL has a chatter mark where the reamer must have got hung up! I believe with good hand loads I can get under 1.5MOA consistently.

Above all else, Enjoy the process getting to where you want to go. My 1.5MOA out of my Scout is far more satisfying than my .5MOA out of my heavy BBL Tikka tactical bolt gun.

Thanks from tonyben
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Old May 28th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #9
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My Loaded doesnt like 147gr surplus. 4 MOA groups with Radway Green. As soon as I put some FGGM 168gr through it, the grouping shrunk to under 1.5 MOA.

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Old May 31st, 2012, 06:39 PM   #10
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Thanks to everyone starting with [There and back again]. I wasn't using my heavy sandbag rests. I was using softer support and was shooting standing over a truck hood. When I used to sight-in and check for accuracy at up to 400 yds I used a solid table with sand bag support[front and rear stock].
Here are my last results: Temp 100 F, wind 4-8 at 6 o' clock, and still standing with heavy sand bags over truck hood. Loaded SAI M1A with iron sights and bore and gas system clean.
25 Yds- 3 round groups (4) .38 to .42 inches- or 1.6 MOA. Port ammo
50 Yds- 3 round group (1) 7/16 inch- or .87 MOA . Wolf ammo
50 Yds- 4 round group (1) 1.35 inch- or 2.7 MOA. Wolf ammo
50 Yds- 5 round group (1) 1.25 inch- or 2.5 MOA. Port surplus ammo
After more wind started 5 shot groups at 50 Yds of 1.5 inches were easy with Wolf ammo. Wolf had tighter groups than 3 other steel animal ammo.
Thanks for the help, I am still studying all suggestions.

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Old May 31st, 2012, 07:43 PM   #11
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If you want good groups you really need good ammo.

My favorite is my own load with 168 grain Sierra Match Kings over H4895.

But Federal Match will certainly let you know what your gun is capable of.

My Loaded and Standard both do < 1.5 MOA with my handload. Neither have had anything done to them.

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Old November 16th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #12
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New to forum

Hi guys,
Just joined and wanted to say I love the forum! I purchased the loaded M1A with the SS air gauged barrel with all the other NM parts that come standard on the Loaded. Love the rifle and wanted to let the guy having the accuracy problems know that so far mine has been capable of 1 to 1.5 inch accuracy at a hundred yards with the iron sights. The accuracy has been consistent with all ammo, even the NATO surplus from RG and DAG. I got mine in June and according to SA it was manufactured in 2010.

I don't know why you would be getting such sub par accuracy. I guess I got lucky and got a rifle that SA took more care with.

I do have a question, has anyone had trouble with scope not lining up correctly with the new steel mount from SA? I tried it and could not get the scope on target, so I went back to the iron sights. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ray

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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #13
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Hey Rayzient,

welcome to the forums! You may want to start your own thread so that people can respond to the origonal posters questions, not yours!

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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staab65 View Post
I started testing my new loaded fiberglas SAI rifle last month. 1000 rds used up Russan,Port,german surplus,cavim,Rem express core-lokt 150 gr. The rifle has no problems cycling with SAI mags. Only one fail to extract with the hand cleaned Port ammo from SG. I keep bore and gas system clean every 200 rds..
This is my problem. 4 MOA 5 shot groups are the best I can fire. at 25 yds nothing under 1", at 50 yds no groups under 2.5", at 100 yds 4.5 to 5.5" is all i can shoot. The loaded sights are excellent and can out shoot my M1 and my 18" Santa fe M-59 at 100 yds but not at 25 yds. I belive I should try a M-14 wood stock, or should I?
Or should I try acraglas at the ferule or other area? Thank you for any help.

Stabb,


don't feel too bad. I have spent a small fortune getting my SA M1A to hold a MOA and so far I have only been able to achieve this with handloads and Swarvoski scope. It is my understanding that 3-4 MOA with commercial ammo is about on PAR.

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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #15
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This is best that I could do with irons.

shots taken at 100 yards, I can't remember what ammo I was using though. I think it was a 4" circle.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg M1A Target.jpg (47.6 KB, 44 views)

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