M14 Forum

Quarryman

Hi Folks...

I'm interested in adding a NM hooded sight to my M1A (Loaded model) and I have a bunch o' questions. Hope someone has the patience to help me out! Here goes:

1. The SA site says "minor gunsmithing" is required to retrofit the NM sight assembly. What's "minor?" Do I need special tools/skills to do it right? Or is my crowbar and 5-lb. mallet sufficient?

2. The actual aperture component can be bought separately but it's said that you lose some adjustment range if you install that on a standard sight base. Is that a problem under normal conditions?

3. Two aperture sizes are available: .0520 and .0595. Which is the more versatile? My shooting will be limited to 200 yards for the most part.

4. My vision ain't what it used to be (to say nothing of my hearing!). The standard rear sight works OK at 100. Is there a chance this whole idea is a waste of time?

5. Last question--can I stay with the standard SA front sight if I add the NM sight at the rear?

Thanks in advance for any and all input!

Quarryman

JBS

I have used and recommend Bob Jones sight lens. I have a set on all my personal competition rifles, http://bjonessights.com/

Instead of me typing out how I fit NM sights here is a fairly good set of instructions to get you started. The only difference is that on request I will add a spring to the windage, you lose a tad of windage correction at the extreme limits but you have no lash. http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs...MRearSight.htm

I always use the NM front blade or even smaller.

bd111

# 4 - Unless your dominant eye is close to 20-20 (or better) with your shooting lens on both the front sight and the bull, the smaller aperture only guides less light directly to the pupil. Maybe somebody would lend you one to try before you buy. That way you could compare under actual conditions.

# 5 - Answer is driven by whichever answer to # 4 gives you a better sight picture.

Stg1944

Hello Quarryman;
FWIW - I went down this same road, adding a hooded rear sight to a SAI Loaded model. The process went something like this.

1. The sights on a loaded are supposed to be NM. The only difference is the rear sight is not hooded. The hood portion is on an eccentric that allows for ½ min adjustment.

2. Ordered hooded sight/rack from SAI. Krieger and others make them also. I got the .0520 size. It is way bigger than the .040 aperture on my NM AR and one small reason I went to the M1a.

3. When it arrived I removed the existing sight (requires removal of the cover).

4. I measured the width of the original rack with calipers and compared it to the new rack. This lets you know how much needs to be removed so that it will fit into the slot. This is the minor gunsmithing part.

5. Then I patiently ground material from both sides of the rack until it fit in the slot. I used a nice flat whetstone to do this. I didn’t think I could do this as well with a file. You need to remove just the right amount of material so that it fits, but is not loose, and is straight as possible.

6. Once I got it to fit in the slot I filed off the bottom tooth so that the rack will go to its lowest position. I matched the original rack as best as I could.

7. Once everything was fitted and working smoothly, applied a little grease to the appropriate places under the sight cover. Then replaced the sight cover.

I am learning to shoot Service Rifle at reduced range matches (100 and 200yds). I too have poor vision and the struggle with the AR apertures. The M1a sights are larger and the M1a hooded aperture lets in more light than the AR does. This setup is working well for me. I made no change to the front blade.

art7

1. Minor gunsmithing is that the NM rack that has the hood in it is intentionally made wider than the slot in the sight base. This is so that you sit there with a file or a stone and make it smaller just a little bit at a time, until it just barely fits in your sight base, so as to prevent woggle.

2. Typically, the rack/hood is sold as an assembly. You lose adjustment if you put this setup on a standard sight base, because to adjust all the way down, the sightbase needs a little notch in it, so the hood does not hit bottom. Without the notch, you lose the bottom several clicks. You can put a notch in with a file if you want - it's ugly but it works, or you can spend bucks and buy a NM sight base with the notch in it. Or, you could get lucky, and the loaded already has the NM base on it.

3. The 052 lets in less light, so I guess you could argue that it is less versatile, however a smaller aperture increases your depth of field, so it will be more accurate. I recommend the 052.

4. I echo what someone else said about BJones lenses. If you do not wear glasses for distance vision, but only for reading, the optical math says that for an M14, the correct lens in the rear hood is a +0.5 diopter. BJones sells those for $30, and it will make you say 'oh, wow!' the first time you look through it. If you do wear daily glasses, feel free to get in touch with me and I can take you through the optical math to get you the right lens.

5. Yes, you can keep the standard front sight. In all my research on shooting optics I have never found a single scientific reason why one front sight is better than another, it is purely personal preference.

Art

Quarryman

To all:

Thanks so much for your input on my questions. A lot of good, usable advice.

JBS, you referred me to the Fulton Armory site and their explanation is pretty good, lacking only two bits of information I need: 1) where is the nomenclature that would indicate whether the sight base is an NM/2A, and 2) where do I start with disassembly of the sight and its cover? By unscrewing the windage and elevation knobs? The dream is to do this job without bending or scratching my existing rear sight hardware. Note: if I don't have a NM/2A sight base I'll probably just order one with the hood already installed.

Art7, I'll take a look at some .5 diopter glasses if I can find some. Interestingly, my oldest and weakest glasses always seemed to work best for shooting, but those have disappeared. The Bob Jones system is a good solution also; I'll get that hooded sight installed and take it from there.

Thanks again, everybody... looking forward to any further comments from the group.

Quarryman

art7

Quarryman,

I sell 0.5 diopter glasses. Check out my website.

Art

JBS

Down load this pdf it should help and it's free. http://www.survivalmonkey.com/FM/TM%209-1005-223-20.pdf

Bamban

One option instead of buying a 14 hooded aperture and you to either to the 2 sizes or the rectangular hooded aperture from Art, buy an AR15 hood, drill and tap your old aperture and screw the 15 hood in. Get the one with replaceable insert then you have much more choices for rear aperture size.

m14brian

I would recommend either Springfield Armory or Smith Enterprise NM rear sights, but I'd buy the whole assembly. The SA was practically drop in, and the SEI set I got assembled from my dealer. I have both in .0595 and I am happy with both. I cannot recommend Creedmoor Sports though. I ordered their parts, and they were so oversized, my smith would've been stoning for years. It needed at least .020 to .030 taken off, that's absurd.
m14brian

art7

Not sure that was a Creedmoor problem. I believe all US made NM sights are made by the same OEM ... well, except for my hoods, but I have those made by the same subcontractor that the OEM uses, so it amounts to the same thing.

phaed_jb

Maybe Art is too modest to mention, but he has some rectangular sight apertures that can offer some interesting improvements. I had a very enjoyable conversation with him about these products, and I would suggest you take a look at those as well. At the least, the information will give you an improved understanding of the optics, and what tradeoffs might be best for you.

Quarryman

One last question on this topic, guys... I promise.

I finally got the entire rear sight assembly dismantled. I've been attempting to determine whether my sight base is an NM type. The rack of the peep sight has the NM nomenclature stamped on its surface and the bottom few teeth have been ground off. It is not a hooded type, though.

But the sight base itself has no nomenclature at all. Does the imprint on the peep sight apply to the whole assembly, or just the peep itself?

TIA for any info here.

art7

Phaed,

Thanks for the compliment. I'm waiting for Nez to start winning with the thing - then it will sell itself :-).

NM on the rack does not mean the whole rear sight is NM, since you can fit a NM rack to a non-NM base, and the other way around.

Art

Quarryman

Thanks, Art. Question answered.